Oh... I found a way to dig out the actual thread. Here it is... Raptavio asked this question on 7/6/2000: If psychiatry and psychology were made obsolete in 1950 with the advent of Dianetics, why have the fields grown and expanded so successfully while Scientology's active membership (no, not the 10 million people who've ever taken a course, I mean the practicing members) shrinks? support_sage gave this response on 7/6/2000: Obviously you have not understood what I said. 1. psychology and psychiatry are redundant..in other words old and unusable..that became obvious in 1950 with the advent of Dianetics. 2. As far as Scientologys active member ship..you had better check your stats..it has at least 4x'd for every year since 1950 and is now in virtually every country in the world..there are more practicing Dianetics auditors than there are psychiatrists...the only reason they still exist is because of government funds. Without them and if the public ever knew that dear "retarded" johhnny could be straightened out ...well it would be a complete death knell Currently psychiatry has gone into drugging populations to keep them stupid ..especially bright kids. Psychology on the other hand keeps running around spouting off about what sex someone is ...it will eventually whither away also..meantime..the termites have been working and the house is being rebuilt.. Raptavio asked this follow-up question on 7/6/2000: Obsolete means old and unusable. Redundant means that the function is duplicated elsewhere. If Scientology had a single member in 1950 and had increased at least fourfold each year for fifty years, the total number of Scientologists in 2000 would be 1,267,650,600,228,000,000,000,000,000,000. (about 1.27 nonillion people). As the sum total of the population of the world is somewhere near 6,000,000,000 I think we can reasonably conclude that you are either counting body thetans as members, you claim the membership of the entire populations of about 500 quintillion Earth- sized planets, or your figures are slightly inaccurate. The remainder of your post is, of course, paranoid, disjointed rants against the institutions of psychology and psychiatry that are unsupportable by fact and seem to regard these two institutions as two individual people, and making claims about the efficacy of Scientology in curing retardation that they have never chosen to prove. Certainly having someone who has spent a couple years in Scientology who can't calculate that four to the fiftieth power is going to exceed the population of the Earth by twenty orders of magnitude is evidence against the ability of the Church to improve intelligence. You rated this answer: support_sage gave this response on 7/6/2000: not really..well you can tear it apart but that doesnt mean you understood what I said. When I referred to redundant I was talking about psychiatry and psychology..2 sides of the same coin one a little less tarnished than the other...both knowing absolutely nothing about the mind, much less how to cure one. And as far as the statistics on Scientology those are correct...they are the the factor that the statistics have been rising at for about 50 years..not the # of people involved. LRon Hubbard used statistics to manage..and his management technology is being used by some of the largest companies in the world...in fact I met a fellow from Taiwan and he told me that it is being implemented in every large business..it will take a while to do but that action has evidently started. He will be going home soon I wished that I had had more time to talk with him..he was over here to learn english. Raptavio asked this follow-up question on 7/7/2000: Word-clear "redundant" before you go on. Psychology and psychiatry serve similar functions, but have different niches - ie psychiatrists are medical doctors, psychologists are not, so only psychiatrists can prescribe the medication Scientology is always screaming about, and psychologists tend to populate the academic side of the field more than psychiatrists, so the bulk of psychological research is done by psychologists. And "redundant" most certainly does not mean old and unusable. The statistics on Scientology are correct? You maintain that the membership rolls have been increasing by 4x - that is, a factor of 4 - every year since 1950? Do the math yourself, Larry. Start with one member - LRH - in 1950 and multiply by four each year for, say, twenty years. You'll exceed the 10-20 million Scientology likes to claim as its membership by a long shot by then. Perhaps if you think I'm wrong here, you could give actual statistics and demonstrate how they represent a 4x annual increase, since I assume you're not claiming a 1.2 nonillion membership roll.... Amazing you can't cite any single 'large business' that uses Hubbard's Management Tech. And seeing as how you cited his name in the defense of your statistical misinformation, I'll again have to point out that if your grasp of statistics is any indication of how well Hubbard's tech works, well.... support_sage gave this response on 7/7/2000: It is interesting to note that this conversation has become so antagonistic..do you think that i would bother to defend Scientology..do you think that for some reason attacking what I say will solve your personal problem...I do not think so..I purposely did not give direct information..because you have shown that you are probably a member of ASL and just trying to damage Scientologys Reputation.. This group has been asking questions and posing answers here on this bulletin board for quite some time. And as for your mathematics ..they are flawed...4x statistics has nothing to do with the number of people..and if you think psychology is not the prodigy of psychiatry you are badly mistaken..the goals are the same..and neither is capable of any thing like dianetics or ever will be unless they steal the technology... Raptavio asked this follow-up question on 7/7/2000: ASL? I don't know what that means apart from Aerican Sign Language. If you mean ARS, yes I do post there. So please, if when you said "it has at least 4x'd for every year since 1950" that '4x' didn't mean "multiplied by four" please explain to me what that means, so I can more accurately understand what it is you mean. Oh, and actually psychiatry is the progeny of psychology, not the other way around. Oh, if you find the conversation antagonistic, well it probably is. But then when you keep referring to the institutions of psychology and psychiatry as the enemy, as if these were two monolithic entities that moved in unison with malicious intent, there's antagonism there, and someone who looks at the obvious fallacies in your anti-psych statements with a critical eye, there will be antagonism between you and said person. Although I also confess I have a low tolerance for such things as I've heard so many of this type of rant from Scientologists and found the flaws in the thinking to be so obvious that I really lack the patience I used to in responding to them, so there's antagonism there too. So, that aside. I'll drop the psych stuff for now and just focus on what you mean by something '4xing' every year. Please elucidate. Raptavio added this clarification on 7/7/2000: Oh, am I out to damage Scientology's reputation? No. I'm out to learn the whole truth about the Church and it's parishioners. During the course of my efforts towards that end I've been fortunate enough to become friends with at least one practicing Scientologist, and I hope to find more like her. support_sage declined to answer on 7/8/2000: No reason was provided for declining this question.