||||| Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.glorb.com!news.alt.net!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 70.70.44.129 From: Gerry Armstrong Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology Subject: Reporter's transcript, Vol. 10, 1984-05-11, Scientology v. Armstrong, LASC No. C 420153 Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 9401 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:00:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.67.253.205 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1108674048 24.67.253.205 (Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:00:48 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:00:48 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.religion.scientology:1833320 de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology:112601 Webbed at: http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/a1/rt-1984-05-11.html SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT NO. 57 HON. PAUL G. BRECKENRIDGE, JR., JUDGE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA, Plaintiff, vs. GERALD ARMSTRONG, Defendant. _____________________________ MARY SUE HUBBARD, Intervenor. _____________________________ NO. C 420153 REPORTERS' TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS Friday, May 11, 1984 APPEARANCES: (See Appearances Page) VOLUME 10 Pages 1564 - 1739, incl. NANCY L. HARRIS, CSR 644 HERBERT CANNON, CSR 1923 Official Reporters [Page Break] APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: PETERSON & BRYNAN BY: JOHN G. PETERSON 8530 Wilshire Boulevard Suite 407 Beverly Hills, California 90211 (213) 659-9965 -and- ROBERT N. HARRIS The Oviatt Building 617 South Olive Street Suite 915 Los Angeles, California 90014 (213) 626-3271 For the Intervenor: LITT & STORMER BY: BARRETT S. LITT Paramount Plaza 3550 Wilshire Boulevard Suite 1200 Los Angeles, California 90010 (213) 386-4303 -and- BARRETT S. LITT BY: MICHAEL S. MAGNUSON The Oviatt Building 617 South Olive Street Suite 1000 Los Angeles, California 90014 (213) 623-7511 For the Defendant: CONTOS & BUNCH BY: MICHAEL J. FLYNN -and- JULIA DRAGOJEVIC 5855 Topanga Canyon Boulevard Suite 400 Woodland Hills, California 91367 (213) 716-9400 [Page Break] INDEX FOR VOLUME 10 Pages 1564 - 1739, incl. Day Date Page WITNESS DEFENSE: DIRECT ARMSTRONG, Gerald (resumed) 1565 (resumed) 1658 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- EXHIBITS DEFENSE: FOR IDENTIFICATION DD - Document re Dive Bomber, 2-11-80 1579 EE - 3-page letter, Wertheimer to Brennan, 11-17-80 FF - 2-page letter, Wertheimer to Brennan, 12-2-80 GG - 1-page letter, Brennan to Wertheimer, 1-2-81 1633 HH - 4-page letter, 10-23-81 & 1 page, 10-23-81 1653 II - 6-page letter, Gerry to Cirrus, 11-25-81 1654 JJ - 9-page letter, Young to Sue, 11-18-81 1666 KK - 1-page handwritten letter, to Sue, 11-28-81 1672 LL - 1-page letter, vaughn to Karin, 11-28-81 1676 MM - 6-page document NN - 1-page document OO - Letter, 12-16 1697 PP - Document, 2-18-82 1698 QQ - letter, 2-24-82 1702 RR - HCO policy letter, 10-18-67 1704 SS - Two color photographs 1730 1564 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MAY 11, 1984; 9:08 A.M. -o0o- THE COURT: All right, in the case on trial, let the record reflect that counsel is present. Mr. Armstrong, you may retake the stand. GERALD ARMSTRONG, the witness on the stand at the time of the adjournment, having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows: THE COURT: Just have a seat. State your name again for the record, sir. You are still under oath. THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong. THE COURT: You may continue, Mr. Flynn? MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Did you have something, Mr. Harris? MR. HARRIS: I just have a brief item, Your Honor. I checked. There were two items requested yesterday. In any event, we checked. There is the COLED 824 LRH biography plan which we think probably was produced to the defense previously, but in any event here it is. THE COURT: All right. 1565 MR. HARRIS: With respect to the alleged letter to the founder, Mr. Hubbard, of the non-existence formula by this witness, there is no such thing. We were not able to find it. And we have access to all the materials, as far as we can tell, that he had in his area. THE COURT: All right. DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) BY MR. FLYNN: Q Mr. Armstrong, do you recall that your testimony that when you boarded the Apollo and prior to joining Sea Org it was represented to you that Mr. Hubbard had resigned from all managerial or supervisory posts of the Church of Scientology in 1966? MR. HARRIS: I do not believe that was his testimony. THE COURT: I don't recall anything like that. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Were any representations made to you about Mr. Hubbard's position, first, within the Church of Scientology prior to your joining the Sea Organization? A The only -- the only thing that comes to mind was the fact that he was the -- the Sea Org worked directly for Ron. Q After you joined the organization and boarded the Apollo were representations made to you that he had resigned from any position, manager, or director or officer of any Scientology organization? A No. I did read what is called, I believe, the 1566 Guardian policy letter. And I don't recall the date of it, but it would have been in 1966 in which something to that effect was written. But it was completely obvious to me and to everyone else on board that Mr. Hubbard was completely engaged in management on a day-to-day basis. So nothing like that ever came up. MR. LITT: That is his opinion, I take it, Your Honor? We certainly don't have a foundation. THE COURT: It is nonresponsive; everything after he saw some Guardian policy memoranda, I'll strike everything else. 1567 Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now after you became the ship's representative, were questions asked of you as to what Mr. Hubbard's position was in relationship to the Church of Scientology? A I don't believe that I ever fielded that question. I was drilled on that subject. Q All right, and how were you drilled on that subject? A The answer was that Mr. Hubbard had resigned as a director in 1966 and was no longer engaged in the management of Scientology organizations. Q And will you explain the circumstances under which that was drilled? A There were a number of questions and areas which were included in briefing packs of materials to do with the ship, to do with Scientology, to do with Mr. Hubbard, and that was included in that pack of materials as an answer to the question on his control. Q Now, were those briefing packs given to everyone who came on board the ship? A Not necessarily that -- the complete briefing pack. Q Was a briefing to the effect that L. Ron Hubbard had resigned all managerial roles in the Church of Scientology given to everyone who came on board the ship? A No. Q Under what circumstances were those briefings given? 1568 A You mean to do with the subject of -- Q Of L. Ron Hubbard's status in relationship to the Church of Scientology. A Well, those on board, and I can definitely speak for myself, knew that he controled the operation on board and outside the -- in other organizations around the world, and it would be ridiculous for me to be briefed that he was not. The briefing that I am referring to is what I would brief to inform others. I was in the particular position of dealing with a lot of local officials, a lot of local press, and with people who might show up at the ship from other organizations without being invited in, people who sought to talk to Mr. Hubbard, for example. So, it was in the context of drilling to be able to handle those sorts of public that I would state the story that he had resigned as a director. Q Now, during the period that you were on the Apollo did you have the opportunity to observe Mr. Hubbard's position in relationship to the Church of Scientology? A Yes. Q And what did you observe? A That he controlled it. Q And in what -- MR. HARRIS: May that be stricken as a conclusion, Your Honor, without an adequate foundation? THE COURT: Well, I will have to strike that. Q BY MR. FLYNN:what specific activities did you 1569 observe that Mr. Hubbard was engaged in with respect to his relationship with the Church of Scientology? A There were two aspects to it. The first was an on-board aspect, and the second was a managerial aspect of outer Scientology organizations. On board he was in control of every aspect. His messengers ran messages from him and ran orders into the galley, into the engine room, into the port captain's office, into the legal bureau, into the ship's operation when we were at sea, when we were in port. I observed the messengers running those messages. 1570 I received orders from Mr. Hubbard throughout the four-plus years that I was on board. And I saw on an international basis, I saw evaluations which were done by Mr. Hubbard, orders which were issued by Mr. Hubbard, telexes from Mr. Hubbard to organizations internationally. I saw the mail which arrived to and from Mr. Hubbard. And from, that I was able to draw a fairly good conclusion that he was in control. Q Now, when you went on board the Apollo do you recall your testimony that you were working for a corporation called Operation Transport Corporation? A Yes. Q Between the time that you worked for Operation Transport Corporation up until the time that you began collecting the personal documents of L. Ron Hubbard for the biography project, was there any change in your relationship with Mr. Hubbard; specifically, with regard to working for him? A Yes. There was a series of changes. Q And what were those changes? A From the time when I was on the ship, although I was working for him, I was not working on his -- for him on an individual or personal basis. I was not dealing with his personal matters, but rather, matters for the whole ship's company which included him. In Dunedin I was working for him. I was in the LRH External Com Bureau. And when I moved from there to Astra, which was the staging area appartments in Culver City, 1571 I was working directly for him. I was, again, in the LRH External Com Bureau. And I was in a very small group of people, all of them in the personal office of L. Ron Hubbard and all living with him. And I was taking care -- I was solely taking care of his needs. When I went to the RPF, then, again, I was more distant. And I was not at that point in the personal office of L. Ron Hubbard. When I again rejoined Mr. Hubbard at the end of 1977, I was working with him personally in making movies. When I began to work on his house in the Household Unit, which are the group of people who serve his very personal needs, I was working directly for him. I had nothing whatsoever to do with what you would call church affairs or church personnel or anything like that. That continued when I remained in the personal office and worked for him assembling his personal archives for the biography to be done on him. Q Now, you mentioned the personal office of L. Ron Hubbard; what is that? A The personal office of L. Ron Hubbard is the group of people who perform various functions which are personal for Mr. Hubbard. Q Was there various divisions within the LRH personal office? A When I was a part of that office, there were a number, yes. 1572 Q What are they? A There was the LRH PR Bureau; LRH Artists; LRH Compilations Unit; LRH Accounts Unit; there was the personal secretary, LRH's personal secretary. There was the LRH Assembly Unit and Authorization end Verification Unit. Q And was there the LRH Household Unit? A Yes. That is another section. Q What did the LRH Compilation Unit do? A The Compilations Unit took materials which had been published in one form or another, writings by Mr. Hubbard, and compiled them into various packs or orders or books or pamphlets or magazines and -- for publication, republication, and sale. Q To your knowledge was that a profit-making operation? A Well, it certainly did make profit for Mr. Hubbard. Q Were all of the units that you just described all profit-making divisions of the LRH personal office for L. Ron Hubbard. MR. HARRIS: May we have an objection to this as calling for a conclusion of the witness without adequate foundation. I move to strike the book, et cetera, Compilations Unit as certainly making profit for Mr. Hubbard, Your Honor. THE COURT: It is a little late, but I'll strike it. You have to lay some kind of foundation as to the basis of his knowledge. 1573 Q BY MR. FLYNN: Were you in any of these units other than the Household Unit? A I was in the PR Bureau. Q And when did you join the PR Bureau? A 1980. Q Now with regard to the Household Unit, did the Household Unit perform any services for the Church of Scientology or any of its divisions to your knowledge of any nature or description? A No. Q Did all of its services relate to personal services of Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. Q And you described the personal services that you worked on yesterday; is that correct? A Yes. Q With regard to the LRH PR Bureau, did you become familiar during the period that you were on the biography project with the operation of that bureau? A Yes. Q And the head of that bureau was who? A During most of the period in which I was in the bureau it was Laurel Sullivan. Q Were there meetings between you and Laurel Sullivan with regard to the purpose of the LRH PR Bureau, particularly with regard to the project that you were working on? A I don't think it was ever discussed, the 1574 purpose of the PR Bureau in that context. There was a purpose of the biography project. Q And what was that purpose? A There were a number of purposes. One was increased acceptance of L. Ron Hubbard and his products. One was money to L. Ron Hubbard. One was increased PR for Mr. Hubbard. Q Now, when you say that money to L. Ron Hubbard, did you participate in meetings in which the question of whether Mr. Hubbard would receive royalties on the book to be written by Omar Garrison was discussed? A Yes. Q And who participated in such meetings? A There was a number of such meetings. Laurel and I discussed it at some time and, in fact, I made some grids of the -- which involved the splitting of royalties between Omar Garrison and how much they would make on a given amount of sales of books, and the subject was also discussed at some length with Laurel Sullivan and Alan Wertheimer. Q And were you present in those meetings? A I was present at least at some of the meetings. Q To your knowledge was it always the intended purpose of the biography project in which you were working that Mr. Hubbard derive income from the sales of the book to be written by Omar Garrison? A That was definitely a large part of it. Q With regard to the LRH Accounts Unit, do you have a general familiarity with what the purpose of that unit 1575 was? A Yes. Q And what is the basis for your understanding of what the purpose of that unit was? A From talking to the people who were the LRH Acounts through time and from my dealings with them. Q And who were these people? A The first one that I recall was someone called Vicky Polimeni; later Vicky Livingston, and there was Mike Smith and then Jim Isaacson. Q And did you have the opportunity to observe them in connection with their duties in the LRH Accounts Unit? A Not a lot but some. Q What did you observe? A I knew that they handled the accounts of Mr. Hubbard, his bank and his sources of income, and that they were very much involved with the sale of his book and his income from various sources. Q For the moment I am going to digress from this subject and then we are going to come back to it. Now, I'd like to take you back, Mr. Armstrong, to the beginning of the biography project in February 1980. At that time do you recall a program relating to the Safe Environment Fund? A Yes. Q And what was that program? A Well, the Safe Environment Fund was an organization which was established of Scientologists which was established 1576 of Scientologists and principally GO personnel to raise money for the defense of the 11 people involved in the Federal criminal case. Q And at some point in time did you become involved in part of that project? A Yes. Q And when was that? A Some time in February 1980, the beginning of February. Q And describe the circumstances under which you became involved? A One of the Safe Environment Fund personnel by the name of Jerry McNeely who was then in the Guardian's Office, having read that Mr. Hubbard wrote the screenplay for the movie "Dive Bomber" created an idea of renting the movie "Dive Bomber" -- it was a 1940 Warner Brothers movie -- and showing it to some Scientologists in public and obtaining through the sale of tickets to that movie and through the promotion of the movie as L. Ron Hubbard's movie income for the Safe Environment Fund. 1577 I became involved because Laurel was asked -- and I had moved by that time into the P.R. Bureau -- Laurel was asked by Jerry McNeely to give a talk, a L.R.H. talk at the event, at the movie showing. So she agreed. I, at that point, saw some of the promotional materials which the Safe Environment Fund was distributing. And they had posters made up and glossy promotional items. L. Ron Hubbard was noted as the man behind the scenes. They had obtained a poster from the Dive Bomber movie and then reprinted it with some text underneath it concerning L. Ron Hubbard and his part in the movie. At that point I had obtained from Del Sol a great amount of materials. And I had within those materials information concerning Mr. Hubbard's involvement in the screen plays, screen writing in Hollywood. So I tried to assemble documentation at that time, thinking that I would support the -- you know, add some color to it, perhaps some anecdotal material that Laurel could include in her speech. And in going through the material, I couldn't find anything to do with Dive Bomber. I obtained a copy of the short story which Mr. Hubbard had written and had been produced in a pulp magazine in, I believe, 1936. And I checked the screen -- I read through the story and then I went to the Academy of the Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences here in Los Angeles -- I was then in Gilman Hot Springs -- and I obtained a copy 1578 just for reading of the screen play or, at least, a synopsis or a treatment. And I realized that the two were completely different. And I also saw that Mr. Hubbard's name was not noted in the credits. And I believe there were a couple of writers noted. In any case, I checked their names against other records in the Academy Library and confirmed that they couldn't have been him because they were writing on several other movies which he could not possibly have been involved with. So they weren't pseudonyms that he was using. So then I sent to Mr. Hubbard some of the information which I had obtained on the movie. Up to that point because I had also contacted -- thinking at that point that perhaps there was some error, maybe he did not write Dive Bomber, I didn't want to have the Safe Environment Fund promoting this thing if he had not in fact done it. It would have been embarrassing if someone had, said, "where is your name" and his name wasn't on it. People had paid money. So I thought perhaps I could come up with something else that could be a substitute. So I tried to get ahold of one which I knew he had written called The Secrets of Treasure Island which was a 15-part Saturday afternoon serial. He wrote that for Columbia, at least he worked on the screen plays. I couldn't find that with Columbia. So I wrote to Mr. Hubbard and let him know what I had found to date in the research that I had done. And he didn't answer me. 1579 But he sent down a dispatch to the Safe Environment Fund and a copy to Laurel which I had at that time. And in that document he said that there was no credit for the movie, but that he had in fact written it. And he -- sounded like he was going to create some trouble for the studio. And it was just before the war. And one day the PR representative for the studio called him up and said -- was very apologetic because he could have been sued for, I believe it was, a dollar per foot. And so he gave Mr. Hubbard a certified check which Mr. Hubbard stuck in a safety deposit box until the end of the war, at which time he went on a Caribbean cruise. Q That is what the document said? A To my recollection, Yes. Q Do you know whether that document is under seal? A Yes, it is. MR. FLYNN: May we have that, Your honor? That is T. Q Is this the document received from Mr. Hubbard that you just testified about? A Yes. Q Now, in the -- May this be marked as defendant's next in order, Your Honor? THE COURT: All right. DD. MR. FLYNN: Should I mark that and give it -- THE COURT: Just put "double D" on it. MR. FLYNN: in Massachusettes, Your Honor, the lawyer is not allowed to mark an exhibit. THE COURT: You are here with the Court's permission. 1580 Q Now, what is the date of exhibit double D? THE COURT: What we will do is we will put DD, and then in parenthesis we will put T; DD(T). MR. FLYNN: It may be just as devastating, Your Honor. Q What is the date of double D, Mr. Armstrong? A 11 February, 1980. Q Now do recall when you sent your dispatch to Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. Q And did you put a routing formula on the dispatch that you sent? A Yes. Q And what was it? A It would have been through Laurel to the messenger on duty to R. Q And when you say "Laurel", it would have had her post title? A Yes, Senior Pers Bureau. Q And was Mrs. Hubbard one of the 11 defendants in the criminal cases you mentioned? A Yes. Q Now, when you received this back, I note the name Fred Ulan, MC. Who was he? A Fred Ulan, I believe, was the head of the Safe Environment Fund. What the "MC" is, I am not sure. Q Incidentally, do you know what the tickets were selling for for the showing of this movie? A No, I don't recall. 1581 Q Do you know approximately how many people showed up for the showing of the movie? A My recollection there was a thousand or more. Q Do you know whether Laurel Sullivan is aware of how much the tickets were selling for? A I don't know. MR. FLYNN: May I read this into the record, Your Honor? THE COURT: Any objection? MR. HARRIS: Yes. MR. LITT: We object to reading any of the documents under seal into the record, and there is no reason to read it into the record. There is nothing exceptional about it, but what is the reason for reading it into the record? He has testified about what he has to nay about it. MR. HARRIS: The court can read it. MR. FLYNN: It lays the foundation for his state of mind for a lot of events that are going to take place over the next year and a half, Your Honor. THE COURT: Oh, I will permit the reading. I don't see anything any different in this and any of the other communications that we have had here. MR. FLYNN: Exhibit Double D: "11 February, '80. "Committee for a safe environment. "CC Fred Ulan, MC. "CC SNR PPRO INT. "CC: F 1582 "Re: Dive Bomber. "You may get a question from the audience or someone as I don't think my name is on the sub-titles of credits for story. The reason for this is that Warner Bros. shot the whole story and got it in the can before somebody had noticed they had forgotten to contract with me and pay me for it. They hastily made up for this omission but after the film was released. "There is an amusing anecdote connected with this: It was just before I was shipped out for the South Pacific as a naval officer. I was closing up my New York, Riverside Drive, posh apartment. The phone rang and the head of Legal Department of the studio's New York office announced himself. He was very worried and stammeringly informed cue that they wanted to see me down at their office right away. Having my hands full of gear I was packing, I demanded to know what it was all about and murder outed. The studio could have been hit for a $ a foot in damages. They made me a very reasonable offer and I said, 'Sure, great, mail the check to the Explorer's Club,' and he said, 'Well, don't you want to come down and sign the contract,' and I said, 'Mail it to the Explorer's Club with the check' and he said, 'Wouldn't you like to come down right now and have lunch?' He was feeling very 1583 expansive and relieved and I said, 'No, just mail the check and contract to the Explorer's Club, I'm busy.' And I was and the war lasted for 4 1/2 years. "When it was over, I used the check to take a holiday in the Caribbean. And that's the story of 'Dive Bomber'. "The audience will have the advantage of me; I've never seen it. They didn't have movies where I went." MR. LITT: There was a mistake made in the reading. The word "it" was just before I shipped out. MR. FLYNN: I might have included the word "was." MR. HARRIS: No, you included the word "the.° I think the best way is for Your Honor to read it. THE COURT: Well, it's been read now and I don't want to read it again. MR. HARRIS: But I mean in future. THE COURT: Well, let's deal with it, on a situation- by-situation basis. Q BY MR. FLYNN: And for the record it was signed "L. Ron Hubbard" at the bottom; is that correct, Mr. Armstrong? A Yes. Q Now, whether items of significance in that communication from Mr. Hubbard that you then pursued in connection with investigating some of the statements that were made? 1584 A Yes, there was a number of points. Q And what are they? A I noted here that he had sent the check -- that it was a check and that it had gone to the Explorer's Club. An earlier tape which Mr. Hubbard made, I believe it is called "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology" or "The History" or something like that, I had a copy of the transcript at that time and it showed that the amount that he received was $10,000 in thousand dollar bills and that he had put it into a safe deposit box. 1585 Q That is what was said on this tape? A Right. And that he had used the money to finance the research for Dianetics. Additionally, I was struck by the fact that here he was going on a -- the war was over and he used the check to take a holiday in the Caribbean. And my understanding was, from what I had read, that he was cripled and blinded and studying when he was blind at that period and that he was broke at the war's end and was deserted by his family and friends. So I had on my hands a number of contradictions. Q Now, subsequent -- Your Honor, at this point we are not going to try to go through all the records of '45 and '50 which we have, but we intend to bring out the pertinent ones at a later time. But in order to keep some continuity in the system by which we are going to go through the records, I'm going to leave the records that we are going to use to address this particular issue, leave that to a later time; just so the court will know. THE COURT: All right. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you, however, Mr. Armstrong, go through all of Mr. Hubbard's records that you could find for the period after World War II? A Yes. I went through what I could find right away to see if I could answer the contradictions. Then throughout the next almost two years, I went through a great deal more masses of documents and kept that 1586 in mind throughout as something which remained unanswered. Q Now, did you examine Mr. Hubbard's Naval and Veterans Administration records with respect to his physical and financial condition after World War II? A Yes, Q And what did you find? A He was claiming throughout the postwar period to the Veterans Administration that he was broke or penniless. And he was also claiming throughout that period that he had various illnesses, particularly an ulcer and diminished eyesight. Q Did you find a record in the Naval records in which he said that he was hospitalized for one year in a civilian hospital after the war ended? A Yes. Q And did you find any records to indicate that he had ever been hospitalized in a civilian hospital for one year? A No. Q Did you find other Naval records that indicated that he stated that he had not been hospitalized for one year in a civilian hospital after the war? A Yes. MR. LITT: Can we not have leading questions, Your Honor? THE COURT: Well, these are leading, counsel. MR. FLYNN: I'll make them more direct, Your Honor. Q Did you find any records that indicated that Mr. Hubbard went on a Caribbean cruise after World War II? 1587 A There was -- MR. LITT: Your Honor, I am going to object to the form of the question as another leading question. He should ask Mr. Armstrong what it is he discovered in this relationship. THE COURT: He doesn't have to ask it that way to be nonleading. The question doesn't indicate he has to give any particular answer. Either he did or he didn't. Let's go ahead. THE WITNESS: There was a story of a ship which was purchased in 1946. Mr. Hubbard purchased the ship as part of a corporation or a company called Allied Services or something along with John W. Parsons and that the money which went into it was Parsons' money. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, is all the Parsons' material among the documents under seal? A Not all of it, but there is a portion of it. Q Now, were there any records relating to any Caribbean cruise? A No. Q When you say, "a ship," what type of a ship are you talking about that Mr. Parsons purchased? A It was a fairly substantial ship. It may have been 35 feet, maybe a little longer. 1588 Q A 35-foot sailboat? A Yes. Q Okay. Now did that situation with Mr. Parsons end up in litigation? A Yes. Q And are those litigation records under seal? A Yes. Q Now were there other records that you found under seal that indicated Mr. Hubbard's physical condition up until 1949? A There is a great number of records on that subject. Q Okay. Now after you found that these contradictions existed, what did you do? A Well, right at this time or shortly thereafter Laurel was signed to a mission, a mission which is called MCCS, Mission Corporate Category Sort-Out, and she was going to be having extensive dealings with Mr. Hubbard's attorney, Alan Wertheimer, and his tax attorney at that time, Jim Murphy, both of whom had offices in Beverly Hills. So we were at that time in Gilman Hot Springs and it was decided that it would make more sense if we moved into Los Angeles. Laurel was to move. I was at some point asked to be her second on the mission. There was a mission in charge, and if there is more mission personnel, they are designated second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth et cetera, and I was to be the mission second. Q And this was what they called the MCCS mission? 1589 A Right. In addition, all the top personnel of the CMO at that point also moved into Los Angeles, and they moved all the international management personnel from Gilman Hot Springs into Los Angeles, so it made more sense because we would be dealing with those personnel and dealing with attorneys to move into Los Angeles. So I moved at that point along with Laurel, and I moved in all the materials which were from archives, the archives which I was establishing at that point. I principally had only the materials from Del Sol, so I moved into Los Angeles. Q And the purpose of the move was because of the MCCS Mission? A Right. Q Now, did the MCCS Mission become inter-related to the biography project over the next year and a half? A Yes. Q And did it become an integral part of the biography project? A Well they were connected. I wouldn't say that MCCS was a part of the biography project. Maybe the biography project was part of MCCS. MCCS dealt with a number of subjects, one of which was the biography contract and the biography project. Q Now, what was the purpose of the MCCS Mission? MR. HARRIS: I will object, Your Honor; no foundation THE COURT: Well if you know. THE WITNESS: The purpose of the MCCS Mission was to 1590 allow or set up the legal procedures or steps or mechanisms by which Mr. Hubbard could retain control but not be responsible for the organization. Q BY MR. FLYNN: How do you know that, Mr. Armstrong? A Because I was involved in the initial briefing and in the correspondence from Mr. Hubbard which were given to Laurel and myself at the outset. I also was involved in a number of meetings, discussions with Laurel Sullivan and similar discussions with Alan Wertheimer. MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, at this point I will move to strike as a conclusion of the witness based upon hearsay, or if not, attorney-privileged communication which he is disclosing at this point. The MCCS Mission, the subject of the corporate sort-out, involved many attorneys and involved church personnel who were in liaison with such attorneys in respect to church matters and sorting out corporate church matters as well as the relationship of the founders of the church, and on that basis I'd move to exclude any further testimony in respect to that. MR. LITT: Furthermore, Your Honor, the church can provide documents that show what the purpose of this is. This implication -- there is no foundation for his statement statement of what he recalls. If the court wants, we can provide in camera to the court whatever documents are necessary to show that this whole activity was directed by attorneys for the purpose of 1591 determining the various inter-relationships between a number of different church organizations and the founder of Scientology. This whole subject matter is wrong. The characterization that has been given, there is no foundation for. It is inaccurate and it cannot be used as an excuse to not begin to probe into this area. We are very concerned about this question. We are prepared to provide the court whatever materials are needed. We are prepared to bring the attorneys involved. We have some memoranda which can be submitted to the court by this afternoon on this area, and we just don't think it can be gotten into. This is just improper. Everything that was done on this mission, this was a mission to regain attorneys, gather facts for attorneys, provide those facts to attorneys, get advice from those attorneys about how to solve a variety of problems concerning these inter- relationships. This man was an employee of the church at the time when all of this occurred, and to the extent he has any such knowledge, he may not divulge it. He may not characterize it. MR. FLYNN: If I could be heard, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. MR. FLYNN: At this point, I have in my preparation of the examination restricted it to the briefing with Laurel Sullivan which was just described to the court laying a foundation for what is going to become readily apparent to 1592 be a very important issue in this lawsuit for the following reasons: The MCCS Mission worked together with the biography project because the biography project in the collection of the documentation, particularly documents relating to the Hubbard Explorational Company Operation Transport Corporation, OTS, and a corporation called Religious Research Foundation, all of which documents or most of which documents Mr. Armstrong collected, basically revealed that from -- MR. LITT: Your Honor -- THE COURT: Let counsel finish. MR. LITT: Your Honor, I am afraid -- if we can have an in-camera thing on this. This has happened before. He cannot refer to contents of any privileged conversations. MR. FLYNN: I won't, Your Honor. MR. LITT: Okay. MR. FLYNN: I won't refer to any privileged communications. The sealed documents in part, together with the other 98 percent of documents that are in the Armstrong Archives which are not here, basically reveal that throughout the period of time that Mr. Armstrong was working for Mr. Hubbard, as he has testified to, and he believed that Mr. Hubbard was only making $35,000 per year from the church, as he has testified to, and as he testified was represented to everyone -- everyone that he knew have related to the Church of Scientology. 1593 The documents basically reveal that over $200,000,000 was paid to Mr. Hubbard from church funds through Hubbard Explorational Company initially at 15,000 pounds per week set forth in the documents under seal; then to the Operation Transport Corporation; then beginning in 1972, to a corporation called Religious Research Foundation. And the funds were transferred into Swiss bank accounts initially and then later on into Liechtenstein bank accounts. Mr. Armstrong, together with Miss Sullivan during the period of time that they were sorting all of this out, basically realized that every Scientologist including themselves, had been grossly misrepresented to relative to the facts of L. Ron Hubbard's control over the Scientology organization, L. Ron Hubbard's participation in these profit- making corporations which received monies from Scientology organizations and whether or not L. Ron Hubbard had even been receiving funds from Scientology organizations aside from the issue of control. The individuals like Mr. Armstrong, for a period of ten years, worked at $4.20 per week, 100 hours per week on personal services of L. Ron Hubbard such as renovating his homes and collecting his documents and -- There will be extensive testimony about the biography contract with regard to what Mr. Hubbard was going to get for it. In fact, hundreds of millions of dollars have been transferred to Hubbard in the liechtenstein bank accounts. What happens is the following: the purpose of 1594 the MCCS Mission, which Mr. Armstrong initially learned about in conversations with Laurel Sullivan, completely shifted in midstream to conceal what I just told the court. Two of the tapes that are under seal -- THE COURT: We are not going to talk about what is on the tapes. MR. FLYNN: -- relate to that subject. So we are in a position of knowing the individuals involved who were involved in the intentional future concealment, the concealment in the future of the facts that have just been taking place over the last ten years and facts that relate to the biography project. Mr. Garrison, Miss Sullivan, and Mr. Armstrong discover all of these facts, the tapes and the later activities of MCCS -- and we have a memorandum already prepared on the subject -- go to the future concealment of the past fraud. THE COURT: Well, of course, this is going a little bit beyond the particular subject we were talking about here. And it seems to me that at this stage of the proceedings I don't really see that there is anything that involves any attorney-client privilege. He was asked about what he had been briefed on. I can't see how he was briefed on -- assuming it was from somebody else within the Scientology group or the Sea Organization or whatever, could be attorney-client privileged. And it may be that you'll get to something that might be privileged, but we haven't got to that yet. When the time comes, you can make an objection. 1595 The fact that there may be something written down doesn't mean that the other side is bound by it. The fact that the plaintiff may have something in writing which purports to indicate one thing does not mean that the defense is bound by it. The other evidence which the defendant has to produce which can contradict it, present it in conflict, we have to deal with that as we go along. I don't remember what the last question was, but clearly, he can testify as to what he was briefed upon. MR. HARRIS: If he was briefed, as he claims as MCCS second, that is, the second person in charge of this mission which was to sort out all of the corporation relationships and so on, in respect to the attorneys and their advice -- THE COURT: We haven't got to that yet. MR. HARRIS: He has also conclusorily stated what the purpose was. THE COURT: If he was told what the purpose was, he is certainly entitled to testify to that. He wasn't told by some attorney, I presume. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Armstrong, the testimony you just gave about the briefings that you received regarding the MCCS Mission, who did you receive that briefing from? A The initial briefing was by Laurel. Q Was there any attorney present in that initial briefing? A No. We -- for the first few days, there was Laurel, myself, and another man by the name of Rick Klingler, joined MCCS at that time. 1596 After the first -- after we moved to Los Angeles, then began a series of meetings with Alan Wertheimer. And during some of those meetings another attorney, Jim Murphy, was present Q Just yes or no; did some of those meetings relate to MCCS with Mr. Wertheimer and some relate to the biography project? A Initially all of then related to MCCS. When the -- we proceeded in the biography project, then Mr. Wertheimer became very involved in that as well. Q All right. Now, leaving that subject there for the moment, after you learned of the contradictions in respect to the Dive Bomber presentation, you indicated to Laurel Sullivan what those contradictions were; is that your testimony? A Yes. I told Laurel at that time what I had come up with. Laurel was not very willing to accept my information and she believed that what Mr. Hubbard had said in the letter was true. And she in fact read that letter at the showing of the film Dive Bomber. 1597 Q And was the movie shown? A Yes. Q And thousands of people attended. MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, that misstates -- THE COURT: He said a thousand. I don't know about thousands. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know how many people attended? MR. HARRIS: Objection. Asked and answered. THE COURT: Sustained. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know whether or not the people who attended paid money? A Yes. It was advertised and there was an admission, the purpose of which was to raise money for the Safe Environment Fund. Q Now, when you found these contradictions, what was your state of mind at the time with respect to your duties and the biography project when you found those contradictions? A Well, I -- at that time and thereafter, for a long time I remained convinced that the man would not lie and that there was some other explanation for the contradictions. I could not resolve them in my mind at the time and they remained as contradictions, but that didn't sway me as far as my dedication to the project and in trying to get to what the real facts were. Q Now, approximately when did you move to Los Angeles from the Gilman Hot Springs property? A My recollection, it was -- would have been 1598 somewhere in the last week of february. Q Of 1980? A Yes. Q Now, at that time did you and Laurel Sullivan have discussions relative to appraising the contents of the archives that you had found? A No. The idea of the appraisal came sometime later. that would have been perhaps in the summer, late spring, summer, of that year. Q And what occurred in connection with the appraisal? A The idea was originated that these things -- when I say "these things," we are talking about the Hubbard originals and the Hubbard archives together with the controller archives; at that time were noted by the L.R.H. accounts who at that time was Mike Smith as having an immense amount of value. His function or the statistics of the L.R.H. accounts post was income to L.R.H., L. Ron Hubbard. And one of the plans that he devised was the possibility of the establishment of a trust. And the intricacies of that thing, I don't know. But one of the purposes of it was to have Mr. Hubbard donate these things into a trust of some sort and be able to take the value as a tax write off of some description. There was a program which was written by Mike Smith at that time. And it has been referred to in some of the documents which have been produced in this case, I believe particularly something from Tom Vorm here. He refers to the 1599 R accounts, the R originals program. And that was originated by Mike Smith. Mike Smith at that time was thinking particularly of the controller archives. But when I discovered the Del Sol Archives, then those were also included in the overall plan. Sometime around that period Mike Smith left. He left suddenly. And Jim Isaacson took over the L.R.H. accounts. For my part in that, I had Virgil Wilhite, who was a collector come in and with his professional expertise, appraise the documents which I then had in my possession. And he was to come up with a figure which was then given to Mr. Hubbard's tax attorney, Jim Murphy. Then came back another order that Mr. Wilhite was to come up with two figures; one was a maximum; one was a minimum. And this had some bearing, apparently, on the way that the documents were ultimately going to be used in a -- for the establishment of an archives trust. The subject of an archives trust came up a number of times during that period. It involved both myself and involved MCCS personnel. I also mentioned the archives trust in communications to Mary Sue. So she was also aware of the plan at that point for the establishment of it. One of the purposes was, of course, to gain income for Mr. Hubbard. Q When Mr. Wilhite did this appraisal, was it in 1600 the summer of 1980? A Yes, Q And that was before you sent the letter of October 15, 1980 to Mary Sue Hubbard; is that correct? A Yes. Q Now, at some point in time you had collected approximately 22 boxes from the Del Sol Hotel? A Yes. Q Approximately how many documents were shredded from the Del Sol Hotel during the shredding in January, 1980? MR. LITT: From the Del Sol Hotel? MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw that. Q Approximately how many documents that were shredded in January, 1980 in the shredding project came from the Del Sol Hotel, if you recall? A I couldn't give you a very accurate figure, but there was a great deal of material which came from there which was shredded. Q Would the number be in the thousands? A Yes. Q Now, were there documents shredded from the upper floor of the Del Sol Hotel? A Yes. 1601 Q And approximately what percent of the documents that are presently under seal were headed for the shredder when you rescued them, Mr. Armstrong? MR. LITT: Objection. The characterization of "rescued." He's testified what he did. Rescue is argument at best. THE COURT: I suppose so, but it is in the eyes of the beholder. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Aproximately what percentage of the documents that are presently under seal were brought to you to determine whether they should be shredded? A Probably a very small percentage. Q And what is your best memory as to what percentage it is? A I couldn't say. If you include the total amount which would have -- if we had allowed the first box to be shredded -- MR. LITT: Objection; this is not responsive. THE COURT: Well he is getting up to an answer. THE WITNESS: Yes, I am trying to give you a percentage. Then the other boxes would have followed suit, the other boxes which were in Del Sol at the time, so I would say 50 percent of the documents under seal come from the Del Sol materials which potentially all could have been shredded during that shredding campaign. Q BY MR. FLYNN: And under the criteria that was established should they have been shredded? MR. LITT: Objection; this has been asked and answered and is a conclusion. 1602 THE COURT: I will sustain the objection. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, during the period of time in the summer of 1980 when Mr. Wilhite was appraising the documents that you had collected, did you become concerned about the fact that documents were being lost, shredded or destroyed from sources other than Del Sol that you had not yet reached in connection with your duties? A Yes. Q And in what way did you become concerned, Mr. Armstrong? A Well, I had at that point gone to Clearwater and some time in May of 1980 I had seen materials at Clearwater, I knew that -- I talked to John McGinley who was in the LRH Pers Com Flag. He informed me that B-1 personnel had gone through the Pers Com files and had taken out anything which they considered sensitive at that time. I also knew that he had taken the totality of the Pers Com files out of the organization offices and had them hidden off the property in a cleaning closet in one of the buildings which was used for housing and berthing by organization personnel. I had by that time gone through the basement of the building known as ASHO, American Saint Hill Organization, and had discovered materials down there which was very early Dianetics--Scientology materials which were being destroyed, and just from those sources alone by the summer, I knew that there was a problem. In August I traveled up the coast and visited 1603 the Seattle organization and the Portland organization and met with a number of early Dianetics and Dianeticists and Scientologists and determined that in those locations there were materials which were not being cared for. So I thought it as a problem of some magnitude at that point. Q And did you learn that materials had been left at the LA organization in an area which flooded really and those materials had been completely ruined? A Yes, those are the ones that I am referring to. I went to the L.A. organization and those materials were being destroyed. MR. LITT: Destroyed or ruined? THE COURT: You can cross-examine later. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Ruined, Mr. Armstrong? A Yes, ruined. Q And you learned at that period of time that documents pursuant to these shredding procedures were being destroyed throughout the United States; is that correct? A I knew of that from 1977 because I was involved even in 1977 on the destruction of, you know, what could have been records of what I considered then historical significance. Q And prior to your undertaking the duties that you are undertook in collecting the documents, to your knowledge was there any organized efforts by Mr. Hubbard or anyone else in the Scientology organization to prevent the destruction of documents of historical interest? 1604 A I think that Mr. Vorm had also around that period, probably in part because of communications with me because I was trveling around a great deal and finding these materials, he also became aware of the problem and within his organization sought to bring the problem to light and take steps to correct it. Q Now in your correspondence of October 15, 1980 which, for the record, is exhibit J, of seven pages in length, did you communicate these problems of destruction or ruination of materials to Mrs. Hubbard? A Yes. MR. HARRIS: Well, to the extent that the words "To Mrs. Hubbard" are in there, Your Honor, the document speaks for itself and is now in evidence. There has been testimony that she didn't receive it. He communicated in a letter. THE COURT: All right. Should be more specific, I suppose. It was communicated in this communication; is that right? THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Ask the next question. Q BY MR. FLYNN: And you sent that to the controller? A Yes. Q And the controller at that time was who? A Mary Sue Hubbard. Q Now did you find, you mentioned the Pers Com Flag files, did that same situation exist with other sources 1605 that you were sending materials from; namely, the destruction or ruination of materials? A Well, the one that comes to mind is, and I may have mentioned it, GO PRWW where they were being totally uncared for and a lot of the materials which I went through were mildewed in the building in which they were housed in St. Hill. 1606 Q To your knowledge prior to your collection of these documents in one place, had a complete collection attempt ever been made together with an appraisal of the documents collected in that process? MR. LITT: Collection attempts of what? MR. FLYNN: Of the biographical materials of L. Ron Hubbard. MR. HARRIS: That is a compound question, Your Honor. MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor. THE COURT: Very well. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know whether an appraisal had ever been done before of Mr. Hubbard's biographical materials? A I don't know of any. Q In your initial petition to Mr. Hubbard did you recite that this is basically what needed to be done; that the materials all needed to be collected for his benefit? A Yes. MR. LITT: Objection. The document speaks for iself. BY MR. FLYNN: With regard to -- THE COURT: The document says, "...one of the historians of the company." What are the historians of the company? THE WITNESS: That was -- the historians of the company were to be the people who collected up the -- what they call the PR archives at WW. There was -- there had been something written on that subject. And I took that -- the note "historians 1607 of the company" from whatever documents I had referred to, THE COURT: All right. You may continue, counsel, Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you meet anyone who fell into the category of being an historian of the company? A I guess I was possibly the closest thing to it. Q Now, prior to the discussions of the contract with Omar Garrison and PDK, did you conduct interviews with people relating to the biography project? A Yes. Q And who did you interview? A This is up to the point of meeting Omar Garrison; is that correct? Q Prior to the contract being executed. A Okay. I had met a number of people in Seattle and Portland areas who were early Dianeticists. I had met Mr. Hubbard's cousin who lived in Bremerton, Washington. I met two of his cousins at that point. I met another cousin in Bellingham, Washington and his living aunt in Bellingham, Washington. I interviewed an old woman who had lived beside him in Port Orchard, Washington and another couple of people who knew little bits of information up in the Port Orchard area. There was a person who worked with me, Francis Schier was his name; he was just sort of a volunteer. And he interviewed a number of people throughout that period. Those were people who were principally at that time working 1608 in one or another Scientology organization. Q Now, what was your understanding as to where the money came from to finance those trips, Mr. Armstrong? A From -- all of it ultimately came, I believe, from Sea Org reserves. Q What is Sea Org reserves? A Sea Org reserves is the money which is collected by the sea Organization from other organizations or from their own organizations which is over and above operating expenses and which is put into reserve bank accounts. Q And did you know where the bank accounts were located for Sea Org reserves in 1980 and '81? A I can't say for sure. I was told Luxemborg at that point. MR. LITT: I object to what he was told. THE COURT: By whom were you told? THE WITNESS: By Laurel Sullivan, Your Honor. And in communications with finance personnel, someone by the name of Tinglenberg. THE COURT: People in the Sea Org? THE WITNESS: Yes. THE COURT: I'll deny the motion. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know an individual named Bill Franks? A Yes. Q In 1980, '81 what was his position? A Throughout at least some of that period he was called the executive director international. 1609 Q And what is that post, Mr. Armstrong? A That was the post which was originally held by Mr. Hubbard up until he supposedly resigned in 1966. And the post was recreated and Mr. Franks assumed that post sometime, I believe, in 1980 or 1981. It was to be the supreme head of all of Scientology. Q Now, did the post of executive director international have superior authority to the post of controller? A That was my understanding of it at that time. Q Prior to the creation of the post or placing Mr. Franks in the post of executive director international, did you have any understanding that there was any higher authority above the post of controller other than what actual authority Mr. Hubbard exercised? A Under Mr. Hubbard and under the messengers who acted for Mr. Hubbard, the controller was the top post. 1610 Q Now, at some point in time was there a group called the Watchdog Committee that came into existence? A Yes. Q And what is the Watchdog Committee? A The Watchdog Committee was a group of senior messengers who as a committee oversaw and managed all Scientology and other activities within the complete network of Scientology related activities. Q And who did they answer to? A Mr. Hubbard. MR. HARRIS: Excuse me, Your Honor. I will move to strike that as a conclusion of the witness unless he was there. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you have the opportunity in 1979 to 1981 to observe the activities of the Watchdog Committee? A I never saw them meet directly as a committee. Maybe I saw them when I walked into their office once or twice, but never to actually observe them acting as a committee. Q Did you see orders that emanated from them as a committee? A Yes. Q How many such orders? A Oh, boy, I really don't know, probably 20 or 30. Q And do you know whether Mr. Franks had any supervisory control or authority over Sea Org reserves in 1611 1980 or 1981? A I don't know that. Q Do you know whether Mr. Franks signed an undated resignation in advance of assuming his position as executive director international in 1980-1981? MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, he could only know by hearsay unless he is present. Could we please have a foundation? THE COURT: Well, if you have personal knowledge that you have seen something like this, you may answer. If you don't, you could so state. THE WITNESS: I haven't seen such a thing. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know what the practice was with regard to officers and directors of corporations of Scientology between 1970 and 1981 with regard to resignations, Mr. Armstrong? MR. HARRIS: Same objection. He's already testified, I think, Your Honor, that he wasn't an officer or a director of any such organizations? THE COURT: Well it is conceivable he might have personal knowledge. If you have personal knowledge, you can tell us. If you don't, you can so state. THE WITNESS: I don't have any, personal knowledge. Q BY MR. FLYNN: When you collected the documents under seal, did you find records relating to undated letters of resignation? A Yes. Q For what corporations, Mr. Armstrong? A For various Scientology corporations. 1612 Q And when you were collecting the documents under seal, did you make inquiries as to what the practice was of Scientology organizations with respect to having undated letters of resignation signed by officers and directors of Scientology corporations? A No. By the time I came across these things, I was already aware of such a practice and so I understood what it was at that time. Q And where did you --- MR. HARRIS: May everything be stricken after "No" as nonresponsive to the question, Your Honor? THE COURT: Well, if I did, that would be the next question so I will let it stand. Q BY MR. FLYNN: How did you become aware, Mr. Armstrong? THE COURT: Of the practice. THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. I had had communications with various people throughout that period. I had been involved in the OTS, the back-dating procedure and in dealing with Kima Douglas who was then the legal officer what was called the Flag Bureau at that time. I had discussions with her regarding the possession of undated resignations and the holding of them. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know where Kima Douglas was an officer or director of any Scientology organizations? A I don't know. Q Do you know of any other individuals who were 1613 officers or directors of Scientology organizations? A I have known several throughout the years. Q And who are they? A Sue Pomeroy, Jimmie Mulligan, Bill Fosdick. Those are the names that I recall right now. Q Do you recall whether Bill Franks was? A Well he was the ED International, so I would assume that is an officer at least. MR. LITT: Objection. THE COURT: All right, what he would assume would be stricken. We will take a 15 minute break. (Recess.) 1614 THE COURT: In the case on trial let the record reflect that counsel are present; the witness has retaken the stand. Just state your name again for the record, sir. You are still under oath. THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong. THE COURT: Mr. Flynn, you may continue. MR. FLYNN: Thank you, Your Honor. Q Mr. Armstrong, prior to the contract being entered into between PDK and Omar Garrison, did you participate in negotiations relative to that contract between Omar Garrison, yourself, and Laurel Sullivan? A Yes. Q And when was that? A We had a number of discussions between the time that he arrived back from Europe -- which would sometime in October -- up to the point of his arrival in Los Angeles which would be sometime in late October. Q Now, you mentioned Europe; had you met him over in Europe? A Yes. Q When was that? A In September, 1980. Q And what was the purpose of your meeting him in Europe? A It was to sell him on the idea of undertaking the writing of the biography. Q And whose idea was it to try to have Mr. Garrison write the biography? 1615 A I think there were a number of people who were involved in that decision. I corresponded with Shelia Gaiman for a couple of months and a number of times prior to actually going to England to meet Mr. Garrison. I was in favor of it; I had the memo from Mr. Hubbard from 1977 where he had basically approved of Mr. Garrison's work points in which he had created a -- not on the line of the book so much as a method or a style of writing it. Q Now, when you say "work points," are you referring to what I think has been marked in two places as exhibit I for the defense? Your Honor, I think it was attached to the contract by Mr. Litt. MR. LITT: We just used what was already there; so it is exhibit I and it is attached, I think, to exhibit G. THE COURT: I remember. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Exhibit I is dated March 16, 1977; is that correct? A Yes. Q To your knowledge what role had Mr. Garrison played prior to the time that you became involved with him in connection with the biography? A The only thing that I know about that he had done relating to the biography was to write what he called his work points. He did that not in anticipation of himself doing 1615-A the biography, but just as an idea on how it could be approached. 1616 Q And do you know who asked him to do that? A I don't know. Q Do you know the circumstances under which exhibit I was created? MR. LITT: Is this personal knowledge that is being asked for, Your Honor? THE WITNESS: I don't have any personal knowledge of it, only what I have been told. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Well, when the contract was created, did exhibit I come into your possession? A I had exhibit I prior to the creation of the contract. Exhibit I, both parts of it existed in the PR Bureau files at that time. Q Had you found that when you were collecting documents on the biography? A Yes. Q Now, did you notice in exhibit I there is a letter from Mr. Hubbard regarding the biographical work points; is that correct? A Yes. Q And did you know in there Mr. Hubbard records that his own records were stolen in 1953 relative to his personal records that existed prior to 1953? A Yes. Q And did you find that to be true? A No. Q And, in fact, you found his records in the Del Sol; is that correct? 1617 A Yes. Q Now when you met with Mr. Garrison, did you have any discussion with him prior to entering into the contract about the fact that the internal records of Mr. Hubbard prior to 1953 did exist? A Yes. Q And what did you tell him? A I told him in considerable detail what I had found and the conditions under which they were found, and I provided him at that point with a copy of the Virgil Wilhite inventory. Wilhite by that point had done a rough inventory of the documents which I had located in Del Solt and I took off the monetary amounts from the copy that I made and provided that to Mr. Garrison along with explaining to him what the mass of the materials was and roughly the contents or description of the -- what types of materials they were. Q Now, did you have any discussion with Mr. Garrison about the fact that he would not undertake the biography contract unless these materials were given to him? A That was my understanding right from the start. It was a point which he demanded. Q Namely, access to these personal materials? A That is right. Q Now after meeting with Mr. Garrison in England, when did you see him again? A Right around the time of the biography contract negotiations. Q And when was that, Mr. Armstrong? 1618 A Probably a few days prior to the actual signing. Might have been the 28th of October. Q And who was present at that time? A Laurel and I and Mr. Garrison. Q Was there an attorney present who represented Mr. Garrison? A No. Q Did he represent himself? A Yes. Q Was there an attorney present representing Mrs. Hubbard? A No. Q Was there an attorney present representing Mr. Hubbard? A No. Q Was there any attorney present? A No. Q And what was said in that meeting? A Laurel showed him -- we both showed him the space which had at that point been renovated for him and which -- and he was shown primarily by Laurel the files of archives which I had which were to be made available to him. That was principally it at that point. It was another selling point. We sort of had arrived at the conclusion at that point that he would do it. He had agreed to do it. The final points of the contract had to be worked out so that they were agreeable to him, but he was at that point willing 1619 to go ahead. Q Now were you present at any meetings when the final points of the contract were worked out? A No, aside from -- no, I really wasn't. Q And were you present when the contract was signed? A Yes. Q And who was present then? A Laurel, myself, Omar, Larry Brennan. I believe also Alan Wertheimer was there. At least for the finalization, if not for the signing of it. Q Going back to the prior meeting had you had any conversations with Mr. Garrison about who was representing Mr. Hubbard, particularly in connection with who Mr. Garrison would deal with from the Church of Scientology? A Well right at the outset I told him that I represented Mr. Hubbard, that Laurel represented Mr. Hubbard, and that we would be the people that he would be working with. He was quite adamant that he would not work with what he considered church personnel. He stated that he had run into some difficulties in doing the prior book "Playing Dirty" and that for that reason, that reason he would not or did not wish to deal with them. 1620 He was insistent on dealing with Mr. Hubbard's representatives. Q And was always understood by you when you dealt with Mr. Garrison that you were dealing with him as Mr. Hubbard's representative? A Yes. Q When the contract was signed did you and Laurel Sullivan represent the interests of Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. Q And whose interests did Mr. Wertheimer represent? A Mr. Hubbard. Q Who did Mr. Brennan represent? A The publisher, AOSH DK. Q Was there an attorney there present who was representing Mr. Garrison? A No. Q Was there any discussion relative to -- as at the meeting when the contract was signed or at a prior meeting -- relative to what, if any, control Mr. Hubbard would have over the biography project? A Yes. The whole thing was actually under his control. And the final approval of the biography was to be his. Q Was there any discussion relative to monies that he would receive as income from the biography project? A That was discussed at some length, principally between Laurel and myself. Q What was that discussion? 1621 A Well, she asked me to make a number of grids which would reflect the amount of income to Mr. Hubbard and to Mr. Garrison, given different percentages and different royalties and given different numbers of books sold and at different prices. And these, I did at her request. Q Were these basically financial projections of what the earnings would be? A Right. Q What was your projection for Mr. Hubbard? A Well, there were various of them. It depended on the amounts of books sold. We were talking about -- they ran between 200,000, 500,000, and over a million. Q Now, were there discussions relative to the values of the materials collected, aside from income from the book, the biography itself? A These were at different times, but there were discussions on that subject. Q And were values placed in these discussions on the materials collected by you? A Here we are talking about the materials I had located in Del Sol and that sort of -- Q All of the materials that were going to be collected for the biography project that belonged to Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. We had discussions on that. Q And what values were discussed for those materials? MR. HARRIS: I'm not sure I know the referent "we," 1622 Your Honor, as to who was present during these discussions. BY MR. FLYNN: How many discussions were there, Mr. Armstrong, relative to the value of the materials collected? A Probably ten. Q And who was present in these meetings? A They were principally between Laurel and myself. Later there were conversations with the -- with Mr. Hubbard's attorney Alan Wertheimer and other discussions with another attorney, Jim Murphy. We also discussed it, Laurel and I, discussed it with Virgil Wilhite. And we discussed how to pay Virgil for his professional services. Q With regard to discussions between you and Laurel were you acting as Mr. Hubbard's representatives at that time? A Yes. Q And what values were placed on the materials when you and Laurel had the discussions as Mr. Hubbard's representatives? A The value placed, rough value, as I recall, placed on the materials which I had at that time -- and this was in the summer of 1980; so I had at that time only accumulated a portion of what I finally ended up with. I believe the total came to $5 million as appraised by Mr. Wilhite. Q Now, was there value placed on the controller archives that were under Mr. Vorm with respect to technical items? 1623 A To my knowledge, a full appraisal was not done. I made arrangements to get Mr. Wilhite access to the controller archives. And I was successful in doing that. I don't recall the reason that it was not done at that time. Perhaps it was because Mr. Wilhite moved away for a period of time. We tossed around figures, given the amount of volume that Mr. Vorm said was there. Mr. Vorm and Mr. Wilhite and I met and discussed it a number of times. Q And what were the figures that were mentioned? A $50 million. Q Now, when these meetings took place between you, Mr. Vorm, and Mr. Wilhite, were you acting as Mr. Hubbard's representative? A Yes. Q Who was Mr. Wilhite acting on behalf of? A Mr. Wilhite was paid by Hr. Hubbard's accounts personnel to do the initial appraisal of the materials which I had. He was also to be paid for the final appraisal. A distinct differentiation had to made regarding who paid Mr. Wilhite because -- so that no future problem would be run into. I would assume, then -- here is an assumption -- that given -- MR. FLYNN: Don't give us that. You mentioned future problems; were there 1624 continuing discussions between you and Laurel Sullivan about who you worked for with respect to the biography project and legal problems that could result therefrom for Mr. Hubbard? A We discussed that subject a number of times. Q What were those discussions? A In that the biography was going to be making a great deal of profit for Mr. Hubbard, in that I was working with his personal archives, it would not be possible for me to continue to be paid by Sea Org, but I was to be paid directly by Mr. Hubbard a standard wage. And the reason for that was so that we would not run into an inurement problem sometime later. Q Now, with regard to this standard wage, was it your understanding at that point in time that it was always Mr. Hubbard who controlled all aspects of your employment? A Yes. Q And when these issues were being discussed did you understand them to be discussed in the context of legal problems that were then related to the MCCS Mission? A Yes. Q And did an attorney participate in those discussions? A An attorney did not participate in the discussions that I had directed with Laurel. But there were similar discussions with an attorney during that period. Q And was that Alan Wertheimer? A Yes. Q To your knowledge were there discussions between -- 1625 were these communications between Mr. Wertheimer and Larry Brennan of PUBS DK relative to some of these problems? A Did you say discussions? Q Communications. A Yes, there were. Q And the problems being specifically who owned the archives; was that one of the issues, Mr. Armstrong? A I don't know if it was addressed as an issue in which there was any dispute. I think it was assumed. It was definitely a part of the correspondence between them. Q And with regard to your job in collecting the materials, was that a part of the correspondence between them? A Yes. Q Now, have you seen that correspondence? A Yes at least some of it. Yes. Q Under what circumstances was it given to you? A It was given to me by Laurel who received it from Mr. Wertheimer. Q And at that time was she acting as Mr. Hubbard's representative? A Yes. Q And were you acting as Mr. Hubbard's representative? A Yes. Q And was the correspondence given to Omar Garrison? A Yes. 1626 Q Now, let me show you a letter -- I believe you already have that -- dated November 17, 1980. When the contract was signed was it Mr. Garrison's understanding, based on the meetings you had with him, Laurel Sullivan, and Alan Wertheimer that L. Ron Hubbard was going to get 50 percent of the royalties of the biography? 1627 MR. LITT: Wait, was it whose understanding? MR. FLYNN: Was it the witness's? MR. HARRIS: Excuse me -- THE COURT: I think you asked whether it was Mr. Garrison's understanding. MR. FLYNN: I will withdraw it, Your Honor. Q Was it your understanding, Mr. Armstrong, that Mr. Garrison was going to get 50 percent of the royalties and Mr. Hubbard was going to get 50 percent of the royalties? A Yes. MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as next in order, Your Honor? THE COURT: Double E. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know who hired Alan Wertheimer, retained him? A Only what I have been told. Q Who told you? A Laurel. Q Now directing your attention to sub-paragraph, or paragraph 3, did you see that correspondence at the time, Mr. Armstrong, that it was prepared or shortly thereafter? A Yes. Q And did that comport with your understanding that the records that you were collecting were the personal records of L. Ron Hubbard and did not belong to any Scientology organization? A Yes. Q And, in fact, Mr. Wertheimer so stated; is that 1628 correct? MR. HARRIS: Well that is a conclusion, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. I will sustain the objection. The letter speaks for itself. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, was it your understanding that the materials you were collecting were coming from his personal files and that was also understood by Mr. Wertheimer, Mr. Hubbard's lawyer? MR. HARRIS: Objection; compound. THE COURT: Sustained. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, there is a reference on the second page who was salaries paid by Mr. Hubbard in out of pocket expenses in connection with the collection and compilation of the personal records and the biographical materials; do you see that, Mr. Armstrong? A Yes. Q At the time that was written was it your understanding that you were the one who was collecting the materials that was to receive a salary? A Yes. Q And what was your understanding with regard to who was going to pay the salary? A Mr. Hubbard. Q And was it your understanding that Mr. Wertheimer was representing Mr. Hubbard's interests when he stated that Mr. Hubbard was to receive 50 percent of the royalties under the contract? A Yes. 1629 Q So it was your understanding then that the project you were engaged in was a profit-making project for Mr. Hubbard; is that correct? MR. LITT: Objection; leading. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Yes, it was. Q BY MR. FLYNN: And was it your understanding that Mr. Hubbard would have final approval for the contract as set forth in exhibit double E? A Yes. MR. HARRIS: Well, just a second, Your Honor. May I move to strike the answer to interpose an objection? That is a characterization by Mr. Flynn of the contract which Your Honor has, which we have no objection moving into evidence, and then the witness's understanding is brought in. So the problem with the question is it is both ambiguous and assumes facts not in evidence. MR. FLYNN: I will withdraw it. THE COURT: Well, the only problem, I am looking at the last paragraph, and, of course, Mr. Wertheimer says, "In connection with the foregoing however, it must be understood that Mr. Hubbard must have final approval over the manuscript." MR. HARRIS: The manuscript, not the contract as Mr. Flynn indicates. THE COURT: All right. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Well, was it your understanding that Mr. Hubbard had final approval of the manuscript, 1630 Mr. Armstrong? A Yes. Q Now, let me show you a letter dated December 2, 1980 from Mr. Wertheimer. May that be marked double F? THE COURT: All right, double F. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Have you seen this letter before? A Yes. Q And what are the circumstances under which you first saw this letters Mr. Armstrong? A I was given it by Laurel Sullivan. Q And when was that? A Right shortly after the date of that letter. Q And turning to the second page in the first sentence of the second paragraph, directing your attention to the sentence: "Mr. Hubbard already has ownership and possession of the Archives. If he were inclined to do so, Mr, Hubbard could, for relatively little money, engage an author directly and then own all rights to his own 'authorized biography.'" A Yes. Q Do you see that? A Yes. Q Did that comport with your understanding that in your capacity as Mr. Hubbard's representative he owned the documents you were collecting? A Yes. 1631 Q Now those letters are written to a Larry Brennan; is that correct? A Yes. Q Who was Larry Brennan? A Larry Brennan was at that time in the legal bureau WW. I believe his title was Branch I Director Legal WW, and he also apparently represented AOSH DK for I don't know what broader, in what broader sense than for the biography, but he apparently represented ADSH DK at the same time. Q When you say Branch I WW, is that the Guardian's Office? A Yes. Q And did you understand that the Guardian's Office controlled PDK? MR. LITT: Objection. What does his understanding of that have to do with anything? THE COURT: Sustain the objection. Q BY MR. LITT: At some point in time, Mr. Armstrong, did you learn that PDK after the contract with Mr. Garrison was entered into knew nothing about the contract? 1632 MR. LITT: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Yes Q BY MR. FLYNN: And when did that occur? A That occurred in the summer and fall of 1981. I attempted -- Omar Garrison was supposed to receive another, I believe, $2,500 in expense money. He had been paid a certain amount up to that point. So I attempted to communicate with AOSH DK, thinking that they would the people to know about this and to forward the $2,500. I received communications back from AOSH DK indicating that they were not going to pay and that they didn't know anything about the biography contract. One communication came from the CO or the commanding officer of AOSH DK. Q And who was that? A I forget the name right now. But we have one communication with the person named. It was -- I believe it was a Danish name. I really don't recall. Q Now, exhibit EE and FF set forth various proposals by Mr. Wertheimer to PDK in connection with Mr. Hubbard's participation in the biography project; is that correct? A Yes. Q And also with respect to the ownership of the archives; is that correct? A Yes. Q And also with respect to the position that you 1633 had in Mr. Hubbard's employ; is that correct? A Yes. MR. LITT: Objection. The documents all speak for themselves. These are characterizations. There is specifically no mention of Mr. Armstrong by name in any of them. So -- THE COURT: They do speak for themselves. MR. FLYNN: May this be marked next in order, Your Honor? THE COURT: GG. BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Armstrong, what is exhibit GG? A This is a letter from Larry Brennan to Alan Wertheimer regarding the LRH biography. Q And did you receive that in connection with your capacity as Mr. Hubbard's representative? A Yes. Q And was it your understanding as set forth in exhibit GG that proposals 1, 3, and 4 of the prior letters of Mr. Wertheimer were agreed to by Mr. Brennan on behalf of PDK? A Yes. MR. HARRIS: His understanding is irrelevant, Your Honor. The document speaks for itself. MR. FLYNN: I submit it is relevant, Your Honor, because of the continuation of his duties thereafter. THE COURT: All right. Rephrase your question. Q BY MR. FLYNN: After you saw all of this correspondence, Mr. Armstrong and after you had these dealings with Laurel Sullivan and Alan Wertheimer and Omar 1634 Garrison, was it your understanding that the materials you were collecting were owned by L. Ron Hubbard? A Yes. MR. LITT: Objection. Asked and answered about four times. THE COURT: Sustained. Q BY MR. FLYNN: After you received these communications did you continue to have the understanding and rely on the fact that the materials you were collecting were owned by L. Ron Hubbard? MR. LITT: Objection. Leading. Your Honor, this is -- I mean the witness only has to answer yes or no at this point. If he is going to testify to state of mind, he should be asked state of mind. He shouldn't be asked questions -- MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Q BY MR. FLYNN: What is your state of mind, Mr. Armstrong, with respect to who owned the biographical materials that you were collecting after you received this correspondence? A L. Ron Hubbard. Q What was your state of mind with regard to who you were working for after you received this correspondence? A L. Ron Hubbard. Q And for how long did you continue in that capacity of collecting materials? A At least until I left the organization in 1635 December, 1981. Q Now, at some point in time did Mr. Garrison move into the quarters that were provided to him in the Cedars complex? A He never really moved in. In the sense of working there, he came there sometimes and would work there. He never did any writing of the manuscript there. He used it as an office, but it was irregularly and for brief periods whenever he did come. Q And at some point in time did he move out almost entirely or not occupy the premises at all? A Yes. Q When was that? A That would have been probably the spring of 1981. Q Now, when you provided materials to Mr. Garrison after the contract was written and before the spring of 1981, describe the circumstances under which you generally gave him the materials, where and when. A Mr. Garrison and I were in very close communication throughout that period until December of '81. And so we would make arrangements for meetings. Either he would come into the office -- at first he came into his office and the office where I worked more regularly than later on. But either he would come in or I would meet him somewhere, you know, for lunch, that sort of thing, or I would deliver materials to him at his Costa Mesa project. He also had a home throughout that period in Utah. And there was once in which I drove up to Utah; there 1636 were four of us that went. We went there for New Year's. I took materials at that time. But generally it was either he came into the office at which time I gave to him whatever I had prepared in the interim since the last time I had seen him, or I went to his place in Costa Mesa. 1637 Q All right, now, were any restrictions ever placed on you by anyone as to what materials you could or could not give to Omar Garrison? A No. Q And what was your understanding, Mr. Armstrong, as to what you could give to Omar Garrison with regard to the materials you collected? A I could give him virtually anything, anything which I deemed had biographical use. Q Did Mr. Hubbard ever communicate to you any restrictions? A No. Q Did Mrs. Hubbard ever communicate to you any restrictions? A No. Q Between the time of the contract and the spring of 1981 approximately how many times did you deliver materials to Mr. Garrison at his Costa Mesa apartment? A Six or seven. Q And up to the spring of 1981 what volume of materials do you estimate you had given to Mr. Garrison at that point in time? A Maybe 10,000 pages. Q Now were those copies or originals? A Copies. Q And who did the copying? A I did. Q Were you provided any support staff during that 1638 period of time to do copying? A No. Q And other than your duties copying and giving materials to Mr. Garrison, prior to the spring of 1981 had you done anything else in connection with the biography project other than what you have already testified about with regard to trips? A The first date --- since the inception -- since the signing of the contract? Q Right. A There was one trip which you could call a trip which was done and that was to the Special Unit, to Gilman Not Springs, and I set up a number of interviews for Omar. He stayed off the property. He stayed there about a week, I believe, total, and I went with him and to the La Quinta property along with another man by the name of Leo Johnson, and then he interviewed a number of people on the Gilman Hot Springs property, and all this took place over a period of a week or so so that was during that time. Q Now, after -- in the spring of 1981 did you begin to take some trips with respect to your duties collecting documents and conducting interviews on behalf of Mr. Hubbard? A There was another trip which I did with Omar and his wife, and it took, I recall, probably two, maybe a little over two weeks and we drove up to Washington State and then to Montana, and through that trip we interviewed a number of people who had known Mr. Hubbard in the early days. 1639 When I say "early" we mean pre-Dianetics days, and family members and I went through a number of records in Helena, Montana, and Bremmerton and Port Orchard, Washington at that time. Q Who paid Mr. Garrison's expenses if you know? A It came form AOSH DK. I don't know where it ultimately care from because the checks, in fact, came from World Wide, but I don't know. I don't know what bank accounts or who it ultimately or whose money it was ultimately. Q How do you know the checks came from Worldwide? This is GOWW? A Right. Q How do you know that? A I saw the initial and the second check. Q Now, who paid your expenses? A Sea Org reserves. Q And after that trip, was there a trip to the Mid-West in July of '81? A Yes. Q And how long did that trip last? A About five weeks. Q And who went on it? A I drove a car and then Joscelyn joined me in Iowa. Q Joscelyn is your wife? A Yes. Q And where did you go on that trip? A Went to Nebraska, Iowa, Canada and then down 1640 through Oklahoma, Wichita, Phoenix. There was a number of other points along the way, but those were the principal ones which had historical interest. Q And why did they have historical interest? A I was at that time tracing the geneology of Mr. Hubbard and his family had come from there. Q Who paid for that trip? A Sea Org reserves. Q And did you conduct that trip as the representative of Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. Q For purposes of the biography project? A Yes. Q Now, throughout this period of time did you have ongoing conversations with Omar Garrison about the materials you were collecting? A Yes. Q And what was the nature of these conversations, Mr. Armstrong? A Well, them was the factual setting of the conversation, what information I had copied for him, what he needed, what area he was particularly interested in at the time, and my attempt to provide him whatever information that would fit into the period or the subject in which he was then looking. Additionally there was a great number of our conversations which dealt with the many misrepresentations which we were uncovering throughout that period and the 1641 differences between the documentation which I was discovering and copying and providing to him, those differences between those materials and the PR biographical sketches and the information which had been provided about Mr. Hubbard in dust jacket material and about-the-author sections and that sort of thing. 1642 Q How often did these conversations take place? A After the initial couple of meetings with Mr. Garrison, they took place -- something in the nature was discussed -- almost in every conversation with him. Something like that would cone up in almost every conversation. Q How quickly after the contract was signed did you begin bringing documents to Mr.Garrison A The same day. Q And from that point on you and he discussed differences between what was in the documents and what had previously been represented about Mr. Hubbard? A No. It actually took a few days. I didn't say anything initially to Mr. Garrison about any discrepancies. It initially came up when I provided Mr. Garrison a number of letters between Mr. Hubbard and his first wife. And that would have been perhaps a week after the beginning of our contractual relationship together. Q And from there to the time you left the organization in december, 1981, can you estimate how many conversations you had with Mr. Garrison about the discrepancies between what was in the documents and what had previously been represented about Mr. Hubbard? A I would say that during that period there would have been a hundred such meetings and conversations, either by telephone or in person. Q Now, did Mr. Garrison during these conversations begin to discuss with you the probability of the biography ever being approved? 1643 A Yes. Q And when did that subject first arise? A It began to arise sometime probably in early 1981. Q And what was said at that time? A There were -- there were a couple of anticipated problems, one of which was the fact that there was no way in which the biography could apparently be approved because there was no line of communication to Hr. Hubbard at that time or no line which, at least, could be admitted to. So that was one of the problems which he faced. Another one was the fact that he was -- together we were uncovering this drastic difference between what the PR had been up to that time and what the facts actually were. And he felt that Scientology and, more particularly, Mr. Hubbard could not stand to see the facts about the man. And he was in the position of wanting to do an honest biography and not wanting to write what he called a puff. And he felt that as a result, he was going to continue on, but he felt that ultimately, as he said many times, the book would never see the light of print. Q And did he use a term to describe that, the fact that there were misrepresentations and for that reason the book would never see the light of print? MR. LITT: Your Honor, these are all hearsay statements. I don't understand what they have to do with. THE COURT: They are all part of the sequence of events that led up to the ultimate situation, state of mind, circumstances, background. 1644 You may answer. THE WITNESS: Yes. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a particular word. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Was there a term 'coperphilia" used? MR. LITT: Should I bother suggesting that that was leading, Your Honor? THE WITNESS: I knew the word, but I just didn't know how admissible that -- such a thing would be. Yes, there was. He referred to the followers of Mr. Hubbard as coperphiliacs. Q Did these discussions continue right up to the time you left the organization? A Yes. Q Now, at some point in time did discussions begin about the fact that you and Mr.Armstrong -- you and Mr. Garrison could be subject to attack by the organization for finding out the truth about Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. We had many discussions like that. Q And when did those discussions begin? A They began in the fall of 1981. 1645 Q And do you recall the first such discussion? A There was a point at which -- yes, I do. Q And when was that? A It followed an incident where I was called to SU as a result of Norman Starsky who I knew at that point to be the second in charge of Mr. Hubbard's legal missions, to be called -- I was called to SU to be sec checked regarding what material I had provided to Mr. Garrison. Q Now at that point in time what was your under- standing as to Mr. Starsky's authority to act on behalf of anyone in the Church of Scientology? A I never considered him in relation to the Church of Scientology. I understood at that point that he was in charge of the LRH legal mission, that he was in the CMO or was a CMO Missionaire and at that point he was involved in dealings with new attorneys which had been retained to handle Mr. Hubbard's legal problems. MCCS at that point had been disbanded. Laurel Sullivan had been pulled out to SU to pull weeds and a new mission had been established, and part of this new mission, the second in charge of the new mission was Norman Starsky. So I asssumed that he was performing basically the same functions as Laurel Sullivan and that he was Mr. Hubbard's legal mission. Q Now at that point in time when was the last time you had a communication from Mr. Hubbard? A The last one I got, which was alleged to be from Mr. Hubbard, was some time in the late spring, early 1646 summer of 1980, and I received a message which had come, a messenger had delivered to Laurel Sullivan asking for a copy of the "Excalibur" manuscript to be sent to him, so I made a copy at that point and wrote a letter to Mr. Hubbard and sent it to him. Q Now between the time you assumed your duties on the project and this period in the fall of 1981, did you have any knowledge of where L. Ron Hubbard was? A From the point I began the project? Q Correct. A At that point I knew that he was in Hemet. Thereafter I did not know where he was. Q Did you have any knowledge as to who was with him? A Yes. Q And who was with him to your knowledge? A Pat and Annie Broeker. Q Who are Pat and Annie Broeker? MR. LITT: Is this personal knowledge or was he told this, too? Q BY MR. FLYNN: Where did you get this knowledge from, Mr. Armstrong? A From Laurel and it was generally known among those of us who were at that level in the organization, and it could also be arrived at simply by two methods, by who was missing and by the fact that in late 1980 or early 1981 Mr. Hubbard sent down a manuscript which later was published as a book "Battlefield Earth." 1647 And there was a proof, an initial proofreading and notes which were done, and they were in Pat Broeker's handwriting. Q And did you see those? A Yes. Q And do you know Pat Broeker? A Yes. Q And at that point in time how long had you know him? A For about nine years. Q And were you familiar with his handwriting? A Yes. Q And during that nine-year period did you become familiar with the posts that he had held for Mr. Hubbard? A Yes. Q And what was your understanding at that time what post Pat Broeker held? A That he held or up to that point? Q Up to that point in time. A When I knew him on the ship, he was in the accounting, either as an FBO; that is, a Flag Banking Officer or someone who dealt with organization moneys. When we moved to Clearwater in Dunedin, he was on an ALR Missan along with his wife at the time, Trudy Broeker, and they were in charge under Hubbard of a particular aspect dealing with the move into Clearwater. Thereafter, he was with Mr. Hubbard in La Quinta and performed -- he was at that time appointed as a messenger. 1648 Some time during that period he married Annie, formerly Annie Tidman, Annie Rush, and the two of them were considered high level messengers. There is various echelons within the Commodore's Messenger organization, and they were up near the top. From 1978 Pat was involved as a messenger with the movie production, and he would accompany Mr. Hubbard to the set and carry out or have Mr. Hubbard's orders carried out on the film production set. In 1979 he was with Mr. Hubbard in Hemet and in 1980 also he arrived with Mr. Hubbard a number of times, so I saw him several times in 1978 when he would arrive with Mr. Hubbard in a van. Mr. Hubbard arrived at the property in a van and I would see Pat with him at that time. 1649 In 1980 Pat and Ann Broeker and Mr. Hubbard went into hiding. Q Now, after 1980 up to the time you left the organization, December, 1981 did you become familiar with the command lines at the top of the organization from L. Ron Hubbard to Laurel to you? A Yes. Q And what were those command lines? A From Mr. Hubbard via the people who were with him, Pat and Ann Broeker via David Miscavige down in the CMO or into the personal office. Q Who is David Miscavige? A David Miscavige was a messenger who, after Mr. Hubbard left in 1980, took over under Mr. Hubbard, the command or control of personal office CMO and all of the Scientology network. Q How old was David Miscavige at the time? A I don't know. He was quite young. Q Between -- throughout the period of time that you were on the biography project did messages from Mr. Hubbard come through Pat Broeker and David Miscavige to Laurel Sullivan? A I don't know about Pat Broeker. All I was told about Pat Broeker -- but I knew they came via David Miscavige. Q Was that the routine command lines for communications from Mr. Hubbard throughout 1980 and 1981? A Yes. 1650 Q And was there an understanding at your level in the organization in 1980, 1981 as to who was with Mr. Hubbard at that time? A Yes. Q And who was that? A Pat Nanenbroeker -- MR. LITT: Objection. He is not now speaking of his own understanding; he is speaking of a collection of understandings. THE COURT: It is more or less the reputation of the organization. I'll let it stand. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Do you know Mr. Starsky worked for? A Yes. Q Who did he work for? A At that time the chain of command to Norman Starsky ran from Norman, who was the second in charge of the special -- what was called special projects up to his senior, Terry Gamboa to David Miscavige and then on up to Hubbard. Q Terry Gamboa is your ex-wife? A Yes. Q In october, 1981 before your meeting with Mr. Starsky did you write a request to the commanding officer of the CMO relative to certain events that were taking place in connection with your wife Jocelyn? A Yes. Q And at that time who was the commanding officer of the Commodore's messenger organization? 1651 A Gale Irwin. Q And do you know where Gale is today? A I have been told that she is in San Diego. MR. LITT: Objection. THE COURT: It is his state of mind, It is not evidence that she is there. It is his state of mind, Q BY MR. FLYNN: Why did you write to Gale Irwin the commanding officer of the Commodore's messengers? A Because at that time my wife Jocelyn, who was then known as Joyce, she was in charge of a legal mission dealing with a new Scientology entity which had been created by Mr. Hubbard called Scientology Missions International, SMI. Q Had she been receiving communications from Mr. Hubbard regarding SMI? A I don't -- MR. LITT: Objection. Is this personal knowledge now, or what his wife told him? MR. FLYNN: I'll withdraw it, Your Honor, THE COURT: All right, BY MR. FLYNN: Go ahead, Mr. Armstrong. MR. LITT: I thought you withdrew the question. Q BY MR. FLYNN: With regard to why you sent the letter to Gale Irwin. A We were talking throughout that period and she informed me that she was very concerned because she was being asked to do things which, in her opinion, were illegal and that was the back dating of various legal documents, board 1652 minutes, so on. She was not trained in legal and she had asked people who should have that type of information and she received two different answers: one, that it was okay and one, that it was absolutely illegal. She was very concerned about this. And part of her concern -- she expressed it to me -- was that when the so-called --- the 11, the criminal 11, were indicted and then convicted, just prior to this, there was a PR campaign within the organization to discredit these people and to make it look like they were acting on their own when in fact they were being made scapegoats. and this was in her opinion and it was in my opinion. She felt the same thing could happen to her; that she was doing things which were illegal and that if it ever came down to it, the organization would not stand behind her and they would say she acted on her own and was doing these illegal things. So she was very concerned. And I, because of my position and because of the fact that I was doing what I was doing and had some organizational altitude and was working for Mr. Hubbard, I wrote to the COCMO, Gale, who was actually over the Scientology Missions International setup and requested that Jocelyn come to work for me. And finally, Gale did approve it and my wife did come and work in the PR bureau specifically on the biography project. 1653 Q Now to that point in time had you had any assistance copying materials that you were giving to Omar Garrison? A No. Q And what duties did your wife undertake at that time with regard to copying materials to give to Omar Garrison? A Well she really took over the totality of the copying and because she was doing that, I was freed up to do other things and she did mountains of copying. MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as the next exhibit in order, Your Honor? THE COURT: All right, double G -- are we up to double H? Q BY MR. FLYNN: When did she actually begin working copying materials, Mr.Armstrong A It would have been the last week of October 1981. Q Up to that point in time taking the total amount of materials that finally ended up in the hand of Mr. Garrison before your wife Joyce started working, what percentage of materials had you already given to Mr. Garrison of the total amount? A Of the total amount that I would give him? Q Right, the total amount that was eventually given, up to the time that your wife started work, how much had you given him to that point in time? A Probably half. Q Now, when she started working, did she begin copying documents and giving them to Mr. Garrison 1654 A Yes. Q And for how long did she do that? A Aside for a week or -- I am not exactly sure, somewhere around a week, five days or a week, when we took a trip up to Carson City, Nevada which would have been in November, she copied throughout that period from the end of October to the time we left in December. Q Did you take the materials to Mr. Garrison during that period of time or did she? A To my recollection I always went. Sometimes she went with me, but I think that I always delivered them. Q And how long before the meeting with Mr. Starsky did that take place? A Probably a couple of weeks before I actually -- the first time I spoke to him in relation to the biography. Q Now when you first spoke to Mr. Starsky, did he demand to know at that time what documents you had given to Mr. Garrison? A No. Q When did he first make that demand? A That was in a communication which he wrote to the CMO at SCU in which he ordered that I be sec checked. Q Now, a "sec check" is again what, Mr. Armstrong? MR. LITT: Objection; it has already been testified to. Q BY MR. FLYNN: That is a security check? A Yes. Q As a result of that request by Mr. Starsky to come and be sec checked, what did you do? 1655 A Well, I showed up at Gilman Hot Springs and I met with the person who had called me out there, Cirrus Slevin who was then in the Hubbard communications office within the CM0. She was what you call an ethics person within the CMO, ethics in a Scientological sense. Q What does that mean? A The person in charge of discipline or punishment. Q And did you meet with her? A Yes. Q And did you have a conversation with her? A Yes. Q And what was that conversation? A During that conversation she showed me Norman Starsky's letter which he had written to her and which he had ordered the sec check. I talked to her and explained what I had said in the conversation with Norman Starsky and that I had simply done what I had done in providing whatever I had provided to Mr. Garrison, and that Mr. Garrison was capable of reading the materials which I had provided and making a rational decision, and that I did not agree with Mr. Starsky's claim that I was speaking out in favor of L. Ron Hubbard's son against the organization or that I felt that L. Ron Hubbard's son was correct and Cirrus Slevin at that point accepted by explanation, and I said that I would put --- I would write her a report and I would get together with Mr. Starsky to sort out any problems that there might be. Q Now did you have -- was part of that conversation 1656 about the discrepancies that had arisen about Mr. Hubbard's background? A Yes. Q And did you write a report? A Yes. MR. FLYNN: May this be marked as the next exhibit in order? THE COURT: Double I. Q BY MR. FLYNN: How long after your meeting with Cirrus Slevin did you write the report? A This would have been within a day. Q And what was the purpose of writing the report, Mr. Armstrong? A The purpose was to make it very clear that contrary to what Mr. Starsky had said, I was not seeking to attack Mr. Hubbard. 1657 That I was simply seeking to have whatever truth we could find brought out and to not continue to promulgate false information about the man which ultimately would come back to harm him. And I sought to let her know of what I had found, at least in part, and the problem that I was running into in the hopes that a bigger view of the whole situation would be taken than what I considered sort of a myopic view which Mr. Starsky had taken. THE COURT: We'll take a recess at this time. We'll reconvene at 1:30. (at 11:58 a.m., a recess was taken until 1:30 p.m. of the same day.) 1658 Los Angeles, California; Friday, May 11, 1984; 1:33 p.m. ---0--- THE COURT: In the case on trial, let the record reflect that counsel are present; the witness has retaken the stand. State your name again for the record, sir. You are still under oath. THE WITNESS: Gerald Armstrong. THE COURT: You may continue, counsel. GERALD ARMSTRONG, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand, having been previously sworn, and testified further as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) BY MR. FLYNN: Q Exhibit II dated November 25th, 1981, Mr. Armstrong, you were testifying about; how was that delivered to Cirrus Slevin, if you know, by hand, or by mail? A I have got there "care of CECP." Our mail, that is, the mail which I had to go out to the special unit, I dropped in an office called CECP. That was Commodore's external COM PAC. And that was the -- what before was the LRH external COM Bureau. Q Now, this is sent to HCO COPE Int? A HCO is the Hubbard Communications Office which is a division within the CMO. The COPE officer was a position 1659 which handled kind of random items which came up and which required someone to cope with them. 1660 Q And where was that post located? A At that time it was at Gilman Hot Springs. Q Now, you refer to Norman Starsky's report in exhibit doubt I; is that correct? A Yes. Q And how long before you wrote exhibit double I did you see Norman Starsky's report? A Within a day of that. Q And Norman Starsky again was in the Guardian's office? A No. Norman Starsky was -- I have noted here he was special project second NS. Special Project was the project which at that time was taking care of L. Ron Hubbard's legal affairs. Q Approximately how long was Norman Starsky's report if you recall? A I believe it was two pages? Q And essentially what did it say? A He ordered that I be sec checked because -- to find out what documents I had given to Omar Garrison. He mentioned that I appeared to be -- that I was in favor of or siding with Nibs. Nibs was L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. or Ron De Wolfe. In any case, he was L. Ron Hubbard's first son, and Starsky also mentioned something about my claim that L. Ron Hubbard was stating that he was an atomic physicist. Q And did he indicate that you were claiming that L. Ron Hubbard was not an atomic physicist, contrary to 1661 what L. Ron Hubbard was stating? A No. The situation I ran into with Norman was that I was saying that Hubbard wasn't an atomic physicist and he said, "Well, he never ever claimed to be." And I showed him a book in Hubbard's own handwriting in which he claimed to be an atomic physicist, and that is what he mentioned in his dispatch to Cirrus. Q Now, about this time did an individual named Vaughn Young begin to come into the picture? A I believe some time prior to this Vaughn had actually become involved with the biography project. Q And how much before this? A Possibly a month. Q And what was Vaughn Young's position at the time? A He was in the Guardian's Office public relations bureau. Q Now, referring you to the fifth paragraph on the first page of exhibit double I, you note some materials prepared by an enemy researcher Michael Shannon; what does that mean? A some time prior to this but still in 1981, possibly in the summer or earlier, maybe even in the spring of 1981, I had learned first of all through an old Dianeticist from Tennessee with whom I was in contact, his name was Perry Chandelan of the existence of this person, Michael Shannon, who was assembling information on L. Ron Hubbard, and Perry Chandelan sent me a pack of materials which had been prepared by Shannon. 1662 That was the first time I knew of Shannon. I learned more about Shannon throughout 1981. Q You say that much of Shannon's material is accurate; is that correct? A Yes. Q Now, in the next paragraph what do you mean when you say that the facts that have been presented, if disproved, will make outsiders at least think that L. Ron Hubbard is a charlatan? A Well, Mr. Hubbard and the organization had at that point for 30 years been putting out information about Mr. Hubbard and about has history and his accomplishments and he credentials and educational background, which I knew at that time to be untrue, and I felt like if we didn't correct them and if they were disproven, which they were being disproven by the media and more particularly by Michael Shannon, that Hubbard would end up looking like a fraud, you know, unless we took steps to correct it. Q Now, did you have a general understanding at the time that you wrote exhibit double I that thousands of Scientologists throughout the world had relied on L. Ron Hubbard's background? 1663 MR. LITT: Objection. MR. HARRIS: I object to his understanding. It is irrelevant. His state of mind might be. THE COURT: What is the difference between understanding and state of mind? MR. HARRIS: I'm not sure, Your Honor, because Mr. Flynn uses understanding seemingly always when he means state of mind. Understanding, strikes me as an agreed upon reality. And this witness' state of mind might not have been agreed upon by anybody except himself. THE COURT: Why don't you ask what his opinion was? MR. HARRIS: That's fine, Your Honor. Q BY MR. FLYNN: What was your opinion, Mr. Armstrong, as to whether Scientologists throughout the world had relied upon the honesty of L. Ron Hubbard? A I thought they had. Q And with regard to the background and educational background of L. Ron Hubbard, what was your state of mind with regards to that? A I felt that Scientologists generally relied on that. Q You see at the top of page 2, ". . . even in our system it would be severely dealt with if someone pretended certification." What do you mean "in our system"? A Well, within the broad Scientology network with 1664 people who were then Scientologists, it was a crime to pretend certification that one didn't have. Q What do you mean "a crime"? A Within Scientology. Q Was that a term that was used, "crime"? A Yes. Q And what did the term mean? A It was a particular offense within Scientology for which one could be punished. Q To falsify their credentials? A Right. Q Now, you go on to recite the various misrepresentations you had found about L. Ron Hubbard; is that correct? A I went -- I listed a number there which I found in a particular document which I believe I attached to the letter. The document isn't here, but it was attached. And it was on this particular item I called the data sheet on Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. I extracted from that a number of items which were inaccurate or unprovable or hyperbole. Q In whose handwriting was the data sheet? A Mr. Hubbard's. Q On page 4 you state that, ". . . it is not logical that I should be targeted for digging up the facts" in the first sentence of the second paragraph. What did you mean by that? A I felt that I had been targeted by Norman Starsky 1665 for trying to get to the truth. He had ordered that I be Sec Checked. And I felt that was extremely out of line when in fact I was trying to investigate, as a researcher would, to find out what the facts were. Q And on the top of page 5 you say, ". . , Nibs. What I stated was the situation with Nibs was to a great degree our creation. He has been mishandled and dealt with dishonestly." What did you mean by that? A Nibs was L. Ron Hubbard's son. And just prior to this I had gone to Carson City along with Omar Garrison and we had met Nibs. I had also, prior to going to Carson City, was briefed on the situation with Nibs by Guardians Office personnel. I was given a time track of data collected on Nibs. I was told by a GO intelligence officer by the name of Peter Alvette that they had someone in close to Nibs that was Ford Schwartz -- MR. LITT: Is this all for state of mind? THE COURT: He is explaining his letter and the circumstances. THE WITNESS: I also knew by that time that many people had been writing to Nibs and signing these letters, originating them and signing their, as if they were from L. Ron Hubbard when in fact they were not. And that this was, at least, the dishonesty that I had in mind when I wrote this 1666 communication. I felt like in that, we, Mr. Hubbard, the organization, his organization, were responsible for some of those acts. I thought that we had, to a great degree, created any problems which existed with Nibs. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you receive a reply from Cirrus Slevin? A Yes, I did. Q And when was that? A It was sometime after my communication. Q And when did you last see that reply? A It would have been around -- sometime after I got it. Q And what did she say? A I don't recall very clearly right now. It was an acknowledgement of my communication and that she understood my situation. And I believe she urged me to get in touch with Norman Starsky. Q Did you do that? A I tried to commuunicate to him. He never made himself available. Q Now, you mentioned Vaughn Young was coming into the picture at this point in time; is that correct? A Yes. Q Now -- May this be marked as the next exhibit in order, Your Honor? THE COURT: JJ. 1667 Q BY MR. FLYNN: Did you receive from Vaughn Young what has been marked as exhibit JJ? A Yes. Q And what does that exhibit in general relate to, Mr. Armstrong? A This is related to "re contracting with Omar Garrison." The situation arose because Mr. Garrison complained about the biography contract which he had with PDK, AOSH PDK. And he was unhappy about the conditions of the contract and the unworkability of the contract. Q And did you have discussions with Mr. Young relative to those matters that are in part set forth in exhibit JJ? A Yes. Q Now, directing your attention to page 2 under paragraph no. 5, there is a sentence relating to earlier correspondence regarding Laurel Sullivan and Mr. Wertheimer and a quote that the maximum advantages LRH could hope to achieve financially and publically in the creation of this property -- we are paraphrasing it -- the basic motivation at that point in the biography project in terms of getting the biography done; do you see that? A Yes. 1668 Q Was that discussed between you and Mr. Young? A Yes. Q And between you and Miss Sullivan? A It was only discussed -- initially it was discussed between Laurel and myself. This would have been in September or October of 1980. Laurel by the time of this was out of the -- at least the PR Bureau in Los Angeles, but Mr. Young was there and I discussed it with him at that point, but only in relation to what had been done. Q Now, there is a notation, "From this point on much of the discussion involved how to get LRH money on the cycle." What does that mean? A That in the initial biography negotiations one of the major points which was being discussed and one of the major reasons for even entering into the whole biography and contract was to make money for Mr. Hubbard. Q And that is set forth in exhibit double J? A Yes. Q Now at the top of page 3 there is a notation relating to a secret contract to be done between LRH and PDK, but did not inform OVG. Who is "OVG"? A Omar V. Garrison. Q And what was the discussion relative to the secret contract? A Do you mean with -- MR. LITT: What discussion? 1669 Q BY MR. FLYNN: Mr. Young. A Okay. Mr. Young and I talked at the time about the fact that Omar had been enticed into a contract in which he was going to split royalties with Mr. Hubbard and not knowing at the time that the intention was also to have Mr. Hubbard make 50 percent of AOSH PDK's net proceeds, Q In addition to the royalties? A Right. Q And Mr. Garrison didn't know that? A Right. That was the substance of the conversations between Vaughn Young and myself. Q Now was there a discussion relative to the fact of someone -- the standardness in the industry of someone having a biography written about them and splitting the proceeds from the biography with the person writing it? A I also discussed that with Vaughn. Q And what was the nature of that discussion? A Just basically what you said; the PR liability in having that situation in which the subject was being paid out of the proceeds of the biography and the lack of credibility that that would give the biography if that fact were known. Q And the notation was made, "Thus the concentration became on how much money could be squeezed out for LRH." Is that what you discussed with Mr. Young? A That was it. MR. HARRIS: Maybe, Your Honor, Mr. Flynn could ask the 1670 witness if there was such a conversation and please state who said what as opposed to leading him through this letter which isn't the witness's letter. MR. FLYNN: That was my foundation question, Your Honor, whether they had a conversation about the letter. MR. HARRIS: Well, so far, Your Honor, everything I have heard has been foundation. Q BY MR. FLYNN: Now, on page 4 there is another notation about, "The entire contract resolved about money and put the project on a withhold." Do you see that? A Yes. Q What is meant by a "withhold", Mr. Armstrong? MR. HARRIS: In this letter, Your Honor? THE COURT: If you know, you can state. If you don't, you can so state. THE WITNESS: The withhold is something which is not communicated when it ought to be communicated, so that everything between the parties in a communication know what they need to know. In this case the project was on a withhold on a number of counts, the first being that Omar Garrison was not informed that Mr. Hubbard was going to make even more money than Mr. Garrison thought that he was going to make during the project. The whole thing was on a withhold from the public because it was not going to be a standard biography as Mr. Young called it in that the subject of the biography 1671 was going to make a great deal of money from it, and this would be a fact which it would not be desirable to the public know. Q And was basically the substance of your conversation with regard to what you have just testified to with Mr. Young set forth in exhibit double J? A Yes. 1672 MR. LITT: Just so I understand the last question, was that question whether or not exhibit JJ reflects the -- exhibit JJ in its totality reflects the substance of their discussions? Q BY MR. FLYNN: With respect to the things that are set forth in exhibit JJ, did you have discussions with Vaughn Young about those matters, Mr. Armstrong? A Yes. Q Now, at that point in time did you become concerned about the legality of the biography project? A Yes. Q Did you subsequently receive a copy of correspondence from Vaughn Young that had been sent to someone named Sue? May that be marked as the next in order, Your Honor? THE COURT: Very well; KK. THE WITNESS: Yes. Q BY MR. FLYNN: And that correspondence is dated 28 November, '81, for the record. Is that correct, Mr. Armstrong? A Yes. Q Now, there is a notation, "Biog Debug Ic" in the upper left-ha