The Goddess Lilith. A conversation

From:    Claudia Slate
To:      Zhahai Stewart                           Msg #35, 14-Jan-89 08:18pm
Subject: Re: Lilith

	  In response to your request for information on
 Lilith, I looked her up in "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets" by
Barbara Walker and published by Harper and Row.  (1983).  This book was
strongly recommended to me by a Dallas parapsychology teacher, (male at that),
who felt I might enjoy and benefit from this study of sexism, which is dealt
with in the book from both historical and mythical viewpoints.

I found this information, which I have paraphrased for the most part.

Lilith, (also know as Lilit), was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to
assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belit-ili, or Belili, to Jewish
mythology.  to the Canaanites, Lilith was Baalat, the "Divine Lady".
Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tired of mating
with animals, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen, though the Old
Testament declared it a sin.  Moslems were insistent on the male-superior
sexual position and apparently Lilith was not Moslem, disagreed with Adam and
flew away to the Red Sea.
God sent angels to bring Lilith back, but she refused to return.  She
supposedly spent her time mating with "demons" and gave birth to "a hundred
children a day".  (Busy woman!) So God had to produce Eve as Lilith's more
docile replacement.
Lilith became the "Great Mother" of settled tribes who resisted invasions of
nomadic herdsmen represented by Adam.   Early Hebrews disliked the Great
Mother who is said to have drank the blood of Abel after he was slain by Cain.
Lilith's Red Sea was another version of Kali Ma's Ocean of Blood, which gave
birth to all things.
There may have been a connection between Lilith and the Etuscan divinity
Leinth, who had no face and who waited at the gate of the underworld along
with Eita and Persipnei, (Hades and Persephone) to receive the souls of the
dead.   The underworld gate was a yoni and a lily, which had no face.
Admission into the underworld was often mythologized as a sexual union.  The
lily or lilu, (lotus) was the Great Mother's flower - yoni, whose title formed
Lilith's name.
The story of Lilith disappeared from the Bible, but her daughters, the lilim,
haunted men for over a thousand years. The lilim were thought responsible for
nocturnal emissions and the Jews still made amulets to keep away the lilim
well into the Middle Ages. Greeks adopted the lilim and called them, Lamiae,
Empusae, or Daughters of Hecate.  Christians also adopted them and called them
harlots of hell or succubae.  They believed that Lilith laughed every time a
Christian man has a wet dream.
The Daughters of Lilith were supposedly very beautiful and presumed to be so
expert at lovemaking that after an experience with one, a man couldn't be


From:    Zhahai Stewart
To:      Claudia Slate                            Msg #83, 20-Jan-89 01:29pm
Subject: Re: Lilith

Thanks for the information about Lillith.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite
answer my questions about Lillith, which are not so much what the  myth or
legend is, as how was it propagated down thru history to us?

A while ago, someone here suggested that Lillith was expunged from the
Christian Bible.  Others, more knowledgeable about that than I, gave reasons
that that was unlikely as a Christian era event, without postulating a
monumental conspiracy.  OK, if Lillith is at least as old as the bible, how
did the myth or legend get propogated?  Was there lost ancient written
material?  Or was it propagated orally for many generations even after some or
many of the books of the old testament were written down?  Or did it arise
later?

As for the lovemaking of the daughters of Lillith, sounds kinda fun.  (Maybe
we should ask David Rice about that?)  Do the sons of Pan spoil mortal women
as well?  :-)

Barbara Walker's Encyclopedia is interesting, but seldom gives very thorough
sources.  It is apparently worth keeping that grain of salt on hand.

I just got her Tarot cards & book; pretty powerful images, I thought.   I
haven't tried a reading with them yet.

Thanks for the info!
 B*B ~z~

---
 * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)

From:    Tony Iannotti
To:      Zhahai Stewart                           Msg #116, 24-Jan-89 10:52am
Subject: Re: Lilith

	As I understand it, Lilith is said to be as old as the bible, because
she is mentioned in the Mishna, a form of commentary on the Pentateuch.
Whether she was ever in what is now canonical, i.e. Genesis per se, is hard to
prove or disprove. The Mishna was an oral tradition for much longer. She has
been identified with Ishtar in much the same ce" way as Mercury to Thoth to
Wotan. I don't think there is a literal or philological connection.


---
 * Origin: OPERA DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718)499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)

From:    Antony Landsman
To:      Zhahai Stewart                           Msg #122, 10-Jan-88 03:58pm
Subject: Re: Lilith


 >  Have you any insight as to where the Lillith myth
 > originates?  For example, what are the oldest documents
 > that mention Lillith?  If indeed Lillith goes back at least
 > as far as the beginnings of the old testament, was that
 > myth carried verbally even while the rest of the Adam & Eve
 > show was written? Or did Lillith originate later?

	Lillith is mentioned in an esoteric Jewish text called the Midrash.  It is
a  compilation of mystical interpretations surrounding the Torah (old
Testament).  It was handed down orally along with the rest of the Talmud and
was written down in the middle ages when the Rabbis thought that these
teachings might be forgotten.

		 Apparently Lillith was created at the same time as Adam (see the
initial reference to the creation of man "Man and Woman" he created them) but
somehow disappeared from the scene due to her rebelious nature.

	I think that she was probably the primary Goddess in the region prior
to the advent and revolution of the Jehovah followers.  I also tend to believe
that Innana was one of her descendants.

Blessed Be

--- QuickBBS v2.03
 * Origin: Canyonlands BBS, Moab Utah: The most scenic place on Earth
(1:15/27)


From:    Inanna Seastar
To:      Antony Landsman                          Msg #145, 25-Jan-89 07:32pm
Subject: Re: Lilith

***** Quoting message from Antony Landsman to Zhahai Stewart *****

		  I think that she was probably the primary Goddess in the region prior
to the advent and revolution of the Jehovah followers.  I also tend to believe
that Inanna was one of her descendants.

***** End Quote *****

	The only Lilith likely to be found in _my_ family huluppu-tree is Lilith
Velkor... :-)

	On a more sirius note (even though I don't use Sirius any more; I use
Gnome), there is no question that Inanna is a third- or later-generation
goddess in the Sumerian pantheon.  I rather suspect that the image of Inanna
as THE Goddess before whom all other deities at least swear a little fealty
comes from Uruk.  Inanna was the matron goddess of Uruk, and most of our
legends and such concerning her were dug up (literally) in Uruk.  The myth of
the huluppu-tree shows a young Inanna, in a young Uruk, trying to get help
from other deities of other, older cities to get rid of a problem that was too
big for her to handle at the time.  The problem is solved by Gilgamesh, King
of Uruk, rather than by any foreigner.  Likewise, the tale of Inanna & Enki &
the _me's_ (civic virtues), shows a young goddess of a young city who has
managed to elevate her city into the first rank.  In winning the _me's_ from
Enki, Inanna adds to them by the time she gets her virtuous cargo back to
Uruk.  I do not recall whether Lilith was formally mentioned as being in
Inanna's lineage, though.

					Blessed Bheer--drinking Enki under the table--
					Inanna


--- Gnome v1.30
 * Origin: The Lizard King--Inanna Seastar's Place (1:104/45.5)


ZS>  "As  for  the  lovemaking  of the daughters of Lillith,
sounds ZS> kinda fun. (Maybe we should ask David Rice  about
that?)

Er, were  you  interested  in  some  phone  numbers?    It's
extreamly hard work to love a daughter of  Lilith,  but  the
rewards are undeniably worth it.

I've  started  an  extended study on strong Lilith women vs.
the domesticated Eve ones.   So  far,  with  only  about  18
tallies  in  (painstakingly  and  personaly  researched with
great, er, debauch, with plans on adding  many  hundreds  of
more into the study), the following has been observed:

Most  American  men give out long before the Lilithian woman
(or any other) will.  Lilith will say "Excuse me, kind sir,"
(as she can't remember his name at the moment). "You're  not
finished, are you?!" and Eve will say "Gee, that was great!"
and  reach  for the batteries and flee into the bathroom for
an hour.

Lesbians tend to be strongly Lilithian.  This may be because
"the only thing men are good FOR they aren't  good  AT,"  as
the true  and  valid saying goes.  Also, most if not all men
are little cry babies,  and  Lilith  can't  stand  for  that
nonsence.

Conversly,  Eve  women always knew men make horrible lovers,
but resign themselves to 4 minutes of sex twice a week, when
they'd rather have 16 hours of sex every day.  This is  why,
perhaps, Eveian women make such good Catholics.

If your typical male pig says, rightly, that a woman's place
is  in  the bed, Lilith will say "Eat shit and die!" and Eve
will say "Yes, dear," and hate herself.


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