About my interview on XenuTV and the CAN spy.
From: [email protected] (JimDBB)
Date: 08 Jun 2000 06:35:56 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Parts 4,5& 6 of my interview have been put up on XenuTV. In these 3 sections I
discuss my experience with CAN (Cult Awareness Network) as a CAN staff member.
In viewing this now I realize that there are gaps and holes in my discussion of
what happened to CAN and a viewer may end up confused. I apologize for this
and let me say that I was recovering from illness when this part of these
interviews took place. Also I want you to realize this...many heavy things
happened to CAN within a small window of time and trying to articulate what all
happened in a coherent way is very difficult. The Los Angeles NewTimes did a
superb job in their CAN article in dissecting what happened to CAN. However
the NewTimes didn't know about the CAN spy and so this is missing from their
Within my discussion of the CAN spy Laura, I call her by the name that we knew
her by, Laura ..... because this was the name that we knew her by at CAN. I
am not repeating the last name here because the real Laura from whom this name
and personal history was stolen has been devasted by this appalling crime.
When Bob MInton revealed through this newsgroup that an investigation had
discovered that Laura..., the Trusted CAN Volunteer was a spy for Scientology,
we at CAN and other anti-cult people who knew her were devastated. We denied
it and protested but as more information came forth we had to face up to the
bitter truth of this perfidy. This Trusted CAN Volunteer had for several years
been passing private internal CAN information to Scientologist attorney
Kendrick Moxon via two agents, Karlos Munoz and David Lee, through two cell
phones. She was also believed to be passing CAN information through Chicago
scientologists Greg Bashaw, Ian Mann, Mary Anne Ahmad, Carla Nelson and
probably Randy Kretchmar, Andrew Bagley and a Minnesota scientologist, Jean
Hornnes. Nelson and Ahmad are on staff at the Chicago Org and Kretchmar is
believed to be an OSA agent. He was named in the Scarff Declaration as an
accomplice in the Cynthia Kisser murder plot. Hornnes is now the
Vice-President and Bagley is the executive Director of the 'New' CAN.
Subsequently, a superb bit of internet sleuthing by Keith Henson, Karen Spaink,
Carol Giambalvo, Milwaukee SP and others revealed that the CAN spy's real name
was Jolie Steckart and that she was an actress. They found pictures of her in a
college play and I identified her. Contact was eventually made with the real
Laura... Further sleuthing revealed that Jolie Steckart was recruited by Carla
Nelson and Peter Arena, two Chicago Scientologists. Nelson and Arena had known
the real Laura...outside of scientology and they took her name and personal
history and setup up Jolie Steckart as Laura...., a cult survivor. Peter Arena
took Steckart to a CAN Conference and to the home of a close CAN supporter.
Steckart who now had become Laura....was introduced as a traumatized cult
survivor. Jolie/Laura did such a convincing job portraying the cult victim
that CAN people took her under their wing and eventually into their confidence.
She was allowed to work in the CAN office and soon became a Trusted CAN
Volunteer. She claimed that she didn't need money as she had a family trust
fund. To some people she claimed that she had a rich mafia uncle
Over a period of seveal years Laura/Jolie worked 3-5 days a week right in the
CAN office and stole internal CAN information and passed it on to Scientologist
Lawyer Kendrick Moxon and the Office of Special Affiars (OSA). This information
was used in the Church of Scientology's extensive plot to destroy CAN. Moxon
set up the bogus Jason Scott case which Scientology financed and which forced
CAN into bankruptcy. Even after CAN was forced to close, Laura/Jolie was
feeding CAN information regarding the CAN Confidential Files to Moxon and and
agent for Scientology was able to seize the CAN Files. The details of all of
this are in the NewTimes CAN article.
When Laura/Jolie was finally outed she quickly vanished. She has not been
heard from since. Several people have claimed to have seen her and to have
known her. One claims that she is a disaffected scientologist. At this point
it is not known whether Steckart was/is a scientologist or an actress recruited
for this job. The real Laura has been harassed by a number of people trying to
contact her apparently thinking that she is the CAN spy. Her whole family has
been adversely affected by all of this negative attention as their family name
is quite rare. Peter Arena and Carla Nelson were married but split up and
Peter arena has disappeared. If anybody knows him or if he sees this, we would
like to talk with him. It would be to his advantage to come forward.
To any scientologist involved with this it will be to their advantage to come
forward. The real Laura wants to sue a number of people and the Church of
Scientology for what happened to her but she does not have the funds to pursue
So, to those who have asked me to write and speak of the CAN spy I hope that
this will make some of this understandable. Jolie Steckart is known to speak
fluent German and French and is believed by some to have worked in those
countries as a scientology operative.
If anyone has questions on anything in my interviews, please feel free to
contact me by email or phone. And if anyone has any information on
scientology's harassment of CAN and the CAN spy, Jolie Steckart. Please
My phone is 847-205-1134
From: [email protected] (JimDBB)
Date: 12 Jun 2000 15:43:21 GMT
References: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Calling JimBeeBe
>From: [email protected]
>Date: 6/11/00 4:09 PM Central Daylight Time
I have tried to answer you twice, Solopost and both times in the middle of my
replies I got whizzed off of the computer. I'll try again.
>I BELIEVE THE FIRST LAURA HAD CHANGED HER NAME SOME YEARS PRIOR TO THE SECOND
>LAURA TAKING THE NAME, POSSIBLY FROM THEM BOTH BEING IN THE SAME CULT IN
>TEXAS, BUT AT DIFFERENT TIMES. HAS ANYONE CHECKED ON THE RITUALS AND RULES
>OF THIS CULT? WAS THIS A TYPICAL PRACTICE?
The real Laura married and apparently her two 'friends' Peter Arena and Carla
Nelson thought that they could use her maiden name and history and no one would
>SHE HAD TWO CELL PHONES? DID CAN PEOPLE CALL HER ON THESE PHONES? WHO
>SPECIFICALLY HAS SEEN THESE PHONE RECORDS? I RECALL THAT BOB MINTONT WOULDNT
>SHOW THEM TO ANYONE, INCLUDING CYNTHIA KISSER. HAS ANYONE IN FACT SEEN THEM?
>IF THEY DID, IT WASNT POSTED HERE AS I RECALL. WAS IT? YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY
>SEEN THEM JIM, RIGHT? DID THEY LOOK LEGIT TO YOU? OR HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THEM
>EITHER? WHO HAS SEEN THEM?
She had one secret phone and one she used for general use. I have not seen the
phone records but what I have seen was enough to convince me.
>WHOA. BELIEVED TO BE? BY WHOM? BOB MINTON? BELIEVED TO BE DOESNT CUT IT
>IN A COURT OF LAW OR ANYWERE ELSE, EVEN ARS. BELIEVED TO BE? YOURE SAYING
>ALL THIS ON A BELIEVED TO BE?
Believed to be by the CAN staff and supporters of CAN who werfe involved with
the situation. This is not a court of law.
>YOU SEEM TO BE MIXING UP KNOWN FACTS AND PEOPLE WITH BELIEVED TO BES. IS
>THAT WISE? FAIR?
I suggest that you read the Gary Scarff Declaration which goes into
considerable detail regarding the murder plot which was aborted, fortunately. I
have talked with Gary Scarff privately and he has confirmed everything in the
declaration and provided additional information.
>FURTHER SLEUTHING REVEALED? FORGIVE ME FOR MY SKEPTICISM.
I understand your skepticism.
>WHY WAS PETER AREANA ALLOWED AT A CAN CONFERENCE? WHO DEALT WITH THEM THERE?
CAN conferences were open to anyone, even scientologists.
>DID SHE? WHO DID SHE CLAIM THIS TO?
To CAN staff and CAN suspporters who knew her.
To some people she claimed that she had a rich mafia uncle
>DOES SHE? WHO ARE THESE SOME PEOPLE?
>Over a period of seveal years Laura/Jolie worked 3-5 days a week right in the
>CAN office and stole internal CAN information and passed it on to
>Lawyer Kendrick Moxon and the Office of Special Affiars OSA.
>I GUESS YOU KNOW SHE WORKED IN THE OFFICE SINCE YOU WERE THERE, BUT HOW DO
>YOU MAKE THE LEAP TO HER STEALING AND PASSING INFORMATION TO OSA? WHAT THE
>HECK WAS THERE TO PASS ON? CAN WAS A LEGIT AND GOOD ORGANIZATION BEFORE IT
>WAS TAKEN OVER, WASNT IT?
CAN was not a secret organization but internal CAN information; plans, names
and addresses of supporters, names and addresses of people who called or wrote
to CAN. legal information and documents egtc.,etc.
Before being taken over CAN was a benovolent non-profit organization which
collected and made available to the public, information on groups that were
considered by the public at large to be destructive groups or cults. Much of
this information was public domain...newspaper and magazine articles etc. This
was a very valulbe service which has now been totally corrupted by the
operation of the fake CAN.
> This information
>was used in the Church of Scientologys extensive plot to destroy CAN. Moxon
>set up the bogus Jason Scott case which Scientology financed and which
>CAN into bankruptcy. Even after CAN was forced to close, Laura/Jolie was
>feeding CAN information regarding the CAN Confidential Files to Moxon and and
>agent for Scientology was able to seize the CAN Files. The details of all of
>this are in the NewTimes CAN article.
>HOW LONG DID SHE WORK IN THE CAN OFFICE? SHE WASNT VERY GOOD AT STEALING AND
>PASSING INFORMATION, BECAUSE IT SURE TOOK A LONG TIME TO BRING DOWN CAN. ID
>BE VERY VERY CURIOUS AS TO WHAT CYNTHIA KISSER THINKS OF THIS. HAS SHE EVER
>SAID ANYTHING? WHERE IS SHE?
She worked in the CAN office about 3 &1/2 years. I worked there for 1 & 1/2
year and she was there the whole time 3- 5 days a week. SCientology spent an
estimated 25 million dolars to destroy CAN. Scientology had its memebers file
over 50 harassing lawsuits. They were all thrown out but this exhausted CAN's
legal fresources. SCientollogy then initiated and financed the bogus Jason
Scott case which resulted in a two million dollar award against CAN and forced
CAN into bankruptcy. Agents for scientology bought the CAN Assets which
included the CAN name at a secret auction. No one outside of CAN and
scientology knew about this auction. We beleive that the US Bankrupcy division
was corrupted. Scientology was allowed to pick the Bankrupcy Trustee who was
hostile to CAN and set up the secret auction.
>Several people have claimed to have seen her and to have known her.
>WHERE AND WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? WERE THE SIGHTINGS CHECKED OUT?
I don't know who these people are as I have no way of checking them out. They
contacted me alciming to know her and to have seen her.
> One claims that she is a disaffected scientologist.
>YOU WERE A SCINO JIM, RIGHT? DID SHE SEEM THAT TO YOU?
I never thought that she was a scientologist and I'm pretty good at being
able to tell. But she fooled and duped us all.
> At this point
>it is not known whether Steckart was/is a scientologist or an actress
>for this job.
>A RATHER LARGE GAP IN KNOWLEDGE. MAYBE SHE WAS BOTH? MAYBE NEITHER? HOW
>WOULD SCN RECRUIT FOR SUCH A POSITION?
Scientology would usually recruit outside of the cult or use a new person.
Then if the spy gets caught they can say that they don't know this person and
this person is not a member
>So, to those who have asked me to write and speak of the CAN spy I hope that
>this will make some of this understandable. Jolie Steckart is known to
>fluent German and French and is believed by some to have worked in those
>countries as a scientology operative.
>SO NOW WERE BACK TO SPECULATING THAT SHES A DISAFFECTED SCINO? HOW OLD IS
>SHE ANYWAY? LOOKS IN HER TWENTIES. SHES BEEN PRETTY BUSY. MUST HAVE SIGNED
>HER CONTRACT AS A PRE-TEEN.
Jolie/Laura, the CAN spy, is now in her early thirties, I would say.
She attened two colleges as a drama student but I don't know how many years.
I hope that this helps. JimDBB
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Calling JimBeeBe
Date: 12 Jun 2000 16:35:24 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>SO NOW WERE BACK TO SPECULATING THAT SHES A DISAFFECTED SCINO? HOW OLD IS
>>SHE ANYWAY? LOOKS IN HER TWENTIES. SHES BEEN PRETTY BUSY. MUST HAVE SIGNED
>>HER CONTRACT AS A PRE-TEEN.
There is *no* evidence of which I am aware that Jolie Steckart was ever a
> Jolie/Laura, the CAN spy, is now in her early thirties, I would say.
> She attended two colleges as a drama student but I don't know how many years.
Her DOB is given as 5/14/61. (Belated happy birthday Jolie.)
Her history includes graduation from Caroll College, and a Master's degree
(Speach?, Acting?) from Northwestern (89), plus some time in the Drama
Dept. at Madison, WI.
Jolie's story, if ever told, would be best seller material.