On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:11:09 +0100, Dave Bird <[email protected]>
>In article<[email protected]>, Keith Henson
snip >>The story is that they hold blackmail material on as many congress
>>critters as the FBI used to. An investigation into the $2 billion rip
>>off of the US Treasury and the cult thumbing its nose at the Supreme
>>Court was not done because (according to his aid) a certain senator
>>It is not a good situation. It will end with the cult taking over or
>>being wiped out.
> The best situation would be if somebody got hold of the details
> and just circulated anonymously or out of reach that "X was
> blackmailed to do such-and-such on exactly this material..."
In the current environment it might cause something to be done, but last summer I talked to an FBI agent GM from the San Jose office. At the time I had reason to think a certain video tape might come into my hands. So after describing what I expected to the contents of the tape to be, I asked this FBI agent what I should do if it showed up in my mail. I sure wish I had taped that conversation. GM told me that if the tape really was what it had been described to me, I would be arrested if I tried to turn it over to the FBI. Further, he informed me that even if the tape were as described, and it had been used as blackmail, the blackmail and other activities would not be investigated as crimes because the events had happened more than 5 years ago and were not indictable. The problem of what to do with such a tape never developed because nothing ever came in the mail. Now that I think about it, I about half way wonder if the phone call was a cult op. If so, calling the FBI guy and getting warned off might have been the best thing I ever did. If they were tapping my phone they knew it would be a waste of time to send me an illegal tape. But as for circulating, I posted lots about it ten days ago. Here it is again. Keith Henson
From: [email protected] (Keith Henson)
Subject: Re: Question for the group
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 04:02:06 GMT
On Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:44:10 -0700, "Fluffygirl" <[email protected]> wrote: >"Daremyth Solmyr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I have a question I want to ask, but it requires a bit of background
>babbling. Please bear with me.
>> I first became interested in the cult after they forced /. to remove a
>> post. Being a Canadian, I had already known they were criminal.
>No, what you knew was that the Canadian government *said* CofS
>was criminal. Not the same thing.
Claire, being in Canada I have researched this a bit. The Canadian government proved the cases they made against scientology in the courts--several of them because the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. So by the normal standard of being convicted in a court they are criminal. (I realize this applies to me--and mine may never be appealed because I can't afford it.) The Canadian case will make a book some day, when CoS is down far enough they can't sue publishers. The way it originated was as a side show from the FBI raid in 1977. Among the other things the FBI found in the raid were a few personnel folders from the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP). The FBI shipped the personnel folders to the Canadian authorities. The OPP and RCMP were understandably upset. Nan McLean had been telling them they were being infiltrated for *years* but nobody in the government wanted to do anything about it. *This* insult though could not be ignored. So the OPP spent about two years infiltrating Scientology's operation in Toronto then raided them. The case is very interesting and I think you will find much of it on www.xenu.ca. The result was that Scientology in Canada was convicted as a corporation. This president makes criminal actions individuals take for the benefit of the corporation into criminal acts by the corporation itself. There was good reason for this finding since the GO/OSA people involved were working right out of corporate policy manuals, HCOBs and such. >As it happens, CofS DOES do some criminal things. And some mean spirited
>things that are (barely) legal or at least aren't illegal but certainly are
Tell me about it! :-) >> Again as I say I don't want to get into wacky theories here. So I am
>>left wondering how the truth might ever be found out. I am assuming that
>>the US Government and its intel agencies will never openly investigate the
>>cult and will certainly not release any information if they do. What,
>>then, could learn the truth about the cult? What organization has the
>>ability to perform the wire taps, email interception, intelligence
>>gathering, and survellience that would be required to penetrate them?
>> Any takers?
>Cof S is both litigious and highly persistent. As witness the IRS status. It
>took them decades to get the IRS to change it, and IRS is not known for
>being easy to deal with by a long shot.
As I understand it, scientology spent about $125 million on the IRS court cases. Lost every time, including Hernandez vs. the Commissioner. Sometime around 1990 they provided PIs, of which Tom Krywucki and Michael Shomers were two, with a large amount of money. Rumors from other PIs who were in the same PI organization put the amount at nearly a million. Considering that scientology paid about a third of a million (that we know about) in the attempt to frame Jesse Prince, spending a million to go after the IRS commissioner after spending $120 million on lawyers is not unreasonable (for CoS). Exactly what they did is not known but there is a bit here: http://www.lermanet.com/exit/FINAL.htm that was posted in Oct. of 1999 so it has been up without any one complaining about it for two years. Down about a page you will find: "4) There are also indoctrination and recruitment centers, in major cities around the world, currently posing as bona fide "Churches" in the United States under an unprecedented secret closing agreement with the United States Internal Revenue Service. This agreement was granted after a private investigator set up and video taped a certain IRS Commissioner having sex with a 12 year old." I have it from a PI who Brian Haney paid to research this matter that Tom Krywucki was unable to pay his taxes and lost his PI license right after this time period. It would be speculation to wonder if he had large business expenses that were difficult to take off his schedule "C." As time goes on, little chunks fill in, like the story someone told at a screening of The Profit" that the secretary to the IRS Commissioner of that time, Fred T. Goldberg Jr., had these two scientologists, David Miscavige and Marty Rathbun barge into his office by his secretary without an appointment. The fact that they were not thrown out at once says *something*. There were other events around this time that are hard to decide if they had anything to do with scientology or not. Mr. Goldberg resigned from the Commissioner's job 3 months later (January 1992) and was replaced by Shirley Peterson. Peterson was thought to have worked for Gerald Feffer when he was at the Justice Department, but by this time, he and his wife Monique Yingling were both lawyers for scientology. The most reasonable estimation for what this cost the US Treasury (I.e. every US citizen) is about $2 billion, a billion dollars in taxes that Scientology figured they owed was reduced to 1.2 percent ($12.5 million). And a reasonable estimation of the taxes Scientologists have taken off their taxes is another billion dollars. Now one can argue this either way, that all these events happened so far in the past that they beyond the statute of limitations, or you could argue that they have gone on from that time to this and it is still a fresh crime. Take your choice. Re the point: >>I am assuming that the US Government and its intel agencies
>>will never openly investigate the cult and will certainly not
>>release any information if they do.
I would think that something that is this easy to investigate on the net has been casually investigated by appropriate people in the government. It is worth noting that when someone in the IRS finally leaked the secret giveaway "closing agreement," Bill Nixon, Senator Roth's aid was said to have tried to get the Senator to hold hearings only to be told sadly that scientology had blackmail material on him and there would be no hearings. Nothing has been done, but that does not mean nothing could be done. For example, Germany and France could suggest that the US really should clean up its own terrorist cult before going after Al-Qaida. In the current environment, the US could declare scientology a terrorist organization (like Time Magazine did) and confiscate every dime. That would pull the teeth on scientology because none of their PIs or lawyers would work for a minute without being paid. If I were a certain dwarf in Gilman Springs, I would keep a suitcase packed or perhaps consider the advantages of self administered R1-45. Keith Henson