On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:41:17 GMT, [email protected] (Keith Henson)
(to page 188)
1 HEMET, CALIFORNIA - FRIDAY, APRIL 20, 2001
2 MORNING SESSION
3 (The following proceedings were held in open court
4 in the presence of the jury.)
5 THE COURT: Good morning.
6 MR. SCHWARZ: Good morning, your Honor.
7 MR. HARR: Good morning, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Hoden?
9 THE DEPUTY: He may be outside, your Honor. Would
10 you like him up on the witness stand?
11 THE COURT: Please.
12 Good morning, sir.
13 THE WITNESS: Good morning, sir.
14 THE COURT: How are you this morning?
15 THE WITNESS: Doing fine.
16 THE COURT: You understand you're still under oath
17 in this case?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
19 THE COURT: All right, Counsel.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
21 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Good morning, Mr. Hoden.
22 A. Good morning.
23 Q. A couple of points that we didn't get to, and quite
24 frankly I didn't ask you. Number one, when you were up at the
25 board with respect to the Golden Era -- you don't have to get
26 up yet -- is Golden Era a part of the Church of Scientology?
27 A. Yes, it is. It's the division of the church that
28 deals with the audio/visual materials for the church. It
152 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 makes all the instructional films, and videos, and tapes for
2 all of the Churches of Scientology around the world.
3 Q. Now, you indicated that there was a studio; do you
4 do any outside work?
5 A. No, this is just -- we just do work for the church,
6 in other words, just church films, church videos, church
7 tapes. And we don't do any outside work for anybody else.
8 Q. Now, you indicated that you were the general manager
9 yesterday; are you a Scientologist?
10 A. Yes, I am.
11 Q. How many people work at Golden Era?
12 A. We have about 750 staff.
13 Q. Are they all Scientologists?
14 A. Yeah, they're all members of the church. It is a
15 church facility. It is the part of the church that does that
16 type of activities. They're all church staff.
17 Q. Okay. You also mentioned that there were some
18 tunnels that, as your testimony was, that Mr. Henson, or the
19 defendant, was running back and forth with.
20 I want to put something on the board for you.
21 THE COURT: Have you shown that to Counsel?
22 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, he has a copy. Thank you, your
24 Q. Can you tell me what this is a depiction of?
25 A. That's a picture of our main underpass under the
26 highway. We have two. That's the main one.
27 Q. Okay. And is this an accurate depiction of your
28 main underpass?
153 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. Yes, it is.
2 Q. It is. Now, I called it a tunnel before, but it's
3 not truly a tunnel, it merely goes under the Highway 79; is
4 that true?
5 A. Yeah. It's an underpass that allows people on the
6 south side of the property to get to the north side, so they
7 just walk through there. Like, you can see the hills in the
8 background, and a chapel off to the right, and there's other
9 buildings off to the left as you go through. So as you walk
10 through, there's a series of steps you walk up. That way
11 staff don't have to walk across the highway, because the cars
12 zip through there.
13 Q. Right. Now, on the board can you please stand up
14 and show the jury where the main tunnel is?
15 A. Okay, sir. Okay. The main tunnel's right here. So
16 as you're looking at that picture, you're looking from this
17 direction here, and the little building that you see the
18 little blue thing up on the top that's sticking up there, the
19 steeple, that's this building right here, that's the chapel.
20 So you walk through this way, and then you either go to this
21 building. These are music studios here -
22 Q. That's okay, Mr. Hoden. So that's where the yellow
23 marker is, is the main tunnel?
24 A. Main tunnel.
25 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated before -
26 THE COURT: Can the witness be seated?
27 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.
28 Q. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to leave you standing.
154 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. It's all right.
2 Q. Try to remember next time.
3 Your testimony yesterday was that Mr. Henson was
4 hanging over the tunnel and jeering; correct?
5 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, leading.
6 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm just -
7 THE COURT: Overruled.
8 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.
9 Q. That he was leaning over the tunnel and jeering and
10 whatnot; when you first saw Mr. Henson, the defendant, which
11 tunnel was he at, or which underpass?
12 A. I can just point to it?
13 Q. Yes, please.
14 A. This one here. This is where the first five or six
15 or ten days he would stay, over this -- this side, or when the
16 people would walk through he would run to the other side. Or
17 vice versa, if they were coming this way he would stand here,
18 and as they were walking through the tunnel he would run over
19 to this side. So this was the major tunnel that he was at.
20 Q. Okay. From the road can you see whether or not
21 there is an underpass?
22 A. No. You can't really tell unless you knew it was
23 there. There's a little rock wall that's there that would
24 designate it, but if you didn't know that that rock wall was
25 where the tunnel was, you wouldn't really know.
26 Q. You indicated just now, you testified that he was
27 there for the first ten days; what happened then?
28 A. Well, what happened was as the people would walk
155 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 through -
2 THE COURT: Excuse me, did you understand the
4 THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe so.
5 THE COURT: Maybe I don't.
6 MR. SCHWARZ: I'll re-ask. I'll rephrase.
7 Q. Your testimony was before, just a few seconds ago,
8 that he was there for the first ten days?
9 A. Yes, approximately.
10 Q. At that tunnel?
11 A. That's right.
12 Q. Now, what did you mean by that, "the first ten
14 A. Well, it was roughly ten days. And what I meant is,
15 what we would do is, to avoid having our staff, placing our
16 staff in a position where he might throw a bomb over or might
17 throw something on top of them to hurt them or something, what
18 I did is whenever he was out here I would have the staff walk
19 around this way, and they would go through our second
20 pedestrian, our secondary pedestrian under-tunnel -
21 underpass, I'm sorry.
22 Q. Okay. Well, just a second. I'm putting on the
23 overhead for the record what's been previously marked as
24 People's Exhibit Number 29. Can you tell me what that's a
25 picture of?
26 A. That's our secondary pedestrian underpass.
27 Q. And that's what you just mentioned?
28 A. Yes.
156 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. Is this an accurate description or depiction of that
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And did it look like that on the -- between May,
5 2000 and September of 2000?
6 A. Yes. It's been that way for the last six years.
7 Q. Okay. Now, if you can get back up on the -- stand
8 up again, I'm sorry.
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Now, if you can continue with what you were saying
12 A. Okay. So what we do is, we'd have the staff go
13 through here, and then they would have to go this way and this
14 way. And one, it caused tremendous inconvenience, because
15 from here to here, we've measured it, they would have to walk
16 all the way around this way was almost more than half of a
17 mile. At that time it was in the heat of the summer. Some
18 days would get up to over 112 during the July period when he
19 was out there almost every day.
20 THE COURT: I'm sorry, is there -
21 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
22 THE COURT: It answers the question.
23 MR. SCHWARZ: Yeah, it answers the question.
24 Q. So you were talking about -- let's talk about that
25 red line. What does it depict, sir?
26 A. That's the route that the staff would walk. And
27 usually it would be used three times a day, because you would
28 have breakfast here, you would have lunch here, and you would
157 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 have dinner here.
2 Q. What does "here" mean, please?
3 A. I'm very sorry. That's our dining hall. So we
4 would serve six meals a day, two breakfasts, two lunches, and
5 two dinners, usually 350 people at one, 300 at the other. So
6 it was a lot of people. So all of a sudden when people would
7 come out to eat, after they were done eating they would then
8 go back to their job. Let's say they work in a studio, or
9 they went to the chapel, they would normally walk right
10 through the tunnel en masse. It was quite a few people,
11 several hundred, because you'd have about 100 on this side,
12 200 on this side. They would all walk through the tunnel at
13 the same time. He would stand at the top of the tunnel,
14 because he would time his time, he was there when people were
15 coming out of dinner, lunch or breakfast -
16 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation for
17 how he -
18 THE COURT: Sustained.
19 MR. SCHWARZ: That's fine.
20 Q. Did you observe him at certain times?
21 A. Oh, yes.
22 Q. And did those times coincide with the times of your
24 A. Absolutely.
25 Q. Okay. So now let's get back to the original
27 A. Okay.
28 Q. You indicated before that it was -- he was there for
158 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 the first ten days over the primary underpass?
2 A. That's right.
3 Q. What happened after -- why the first ten days? What
4 happened after the first ten days?
5 A. Well, what I did is I had the staff, as I said, walk
6 this way. And then he would stand there and nobody would come,
7 through the tunnel. And he, after about a two-day period he
8 would see the staff through the trees walking this way.
9 THE COURT: Excuse me.
10 THE WITNESS: And what he did is, he ran down -
11 THE COURT: Excuse me, Mr. Hoden.
12 What was the question? The question is what
13 happened after the ten days?
14 MR. SCHWARZ: Yeah, what happened after the ten
16 THE COURT: Can you answer what happened after the
17 ten days?
18 MR. SCHWARZ: Please tell them, okay?
19 THE WITNESS: Well, the people started taking this
20 route, that's what happened. And the other thing that
21 happened is that he stood here for a day or two looking for
22 people, couldn't find any people, and then saw them walking
23 down here. He would, like, walk along the highway looking for
24 them, and then he saw them coming through the tunnel here.
25 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. After he discovered that
26 there was another tunnel, what happened?
27 A. Well, then what would happen is he would stand at
28 this tunnel. And if he didn't see the people walking he would
159 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 run down this -
2 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, calls for a
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): What did you observe Mr. Henson
7 A. Running back and forth between the two tunnels. In
8 other words, he would stand over this tunnel that people
9 couldn't walk through. They would start to go this way, he
10 would run down here to this tunnel.
11 Q. You saw that?
12 A. I saw that. And then what he would do is he would
13 run across the street as they came out the other side, and he
14 would run across, back and forth here, trying to prevent the
15 people coming through the tunnels.
16 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, conclusion on that
17 last part.
18 THE COURT: Sustained. That statement will be
20 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. Mr. Hoden, just try to -
21 just talk about your observations.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. Now, you're talking about running back and forth;
24 how long did this last?
25 A. This went for between three and four weeks.
26 Q. You can sit down. I'm sorry, sir.
27 A. This went for between a three to four-week period.
28 Q. Okay. Now, when he would go to the tunnels was it
160 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 the same type of conduct that you described before where he
2 was jeering, cat-calling, et cetera?
3 A. Yes. Or trying to lean over the tunnel. My fear
4 was that he would throw something over the tunnel.
5 Q. Okay. Now, we have a red line, you indicated that
6 it was the distances between having to go from one tunnel to
7 the next; how do you know the distances?
8 A. Well, I know the property very well. I walked the
9 property, measured it on a map.
10 Q. You measured it?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Now, given the fact that the defendant was
13 doing this kind of conduct, did that impede your daily
15 A. Oh, tremendously so.
16 Q. How so?
17 A. Well, let's say after dinner if we were going to
18 have chapel, in other words, all the people would just
19 normally go through the tunnel over to the chapel. And they
20 couldn't do that. The back part of the chapel -
21 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, calls for a
23 THE COURT: Sustained.
24 MR. HARR: Ask that that be stricken as well.
25 THE COURT: Motion granted.
26 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. Mr. Hoden, now, just how
27 did it impede your affairs? What steps were taken and what
28 was the cause of whatever steps were taken? Can you let me
161 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 know that?
2 A. Yes, I could.
3 Q. Okay.
4 MR. HARR: Your Honor, that's a multi-part. I ask
5 that be done one step at a time, please.
6 THE COURT: All right.
7 MR. SCHWARZ: Fine, your Honor. Absolutely.
8 THE COURT: Ask your question, please.
9 MR. SCHWARZ: I'll rephrase.
10 Q. Now, what steps were taken? Because you talked
11 about safety. What steps were taken, what other -- given
12 Mr. -- I'll rephrase completely.
13 Given Mr. Henson's activities, what steps did you
14 take to protect the safety that you talked -
15 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, that presumes -
16 MR. SCHWARZ: He's already testified to safety.
17 THE COURT: Please.
18 What is your legal grounds, Counsel?
19 MR. HARR: Conclusionary.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): All right. Given Mr. Henson's
22 activities were there any steps taken?
23 A. Yes. The two chapel rooms that were closest to the
24 highway were always closed off and evacuated. We couldn't use
25 that portion of the chapel because it was close to the
26 highway. It was about from this wall to about that wall.
27 That's how far the road was from the chapel area, and we were
28 afraid that he was going to throw something up there. So
162 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 those two church worship areas that were closest to the road
2 had to be closed off, and we couldn't use those for a period
3 of almost two months. That was one thing that I did do.
4 Q. Thank you.
5 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I would ask that the record
6 please reflect a distance that the witness has described, a
7 space but not a distance, if we could please -
8 MR. SCHWARZ: That's true, your Honor. Do we have a
9 map, or the -
10 THE COURT: No.
11 MR. SCHWARZ: We don't.
12 THE COURT: I'm sorry.
13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): So how much would you estimate
14 between you and the end of the wall, sir? What would your
15 estimation be in round figures?
16 A. Fifteen yards.
17 Q. Okay.
18 Fifteen yards?
19 MR. HARR: If that's his testimony.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: If you wanted to disagree.
21 Q. Let's get away from that. We also -- yesterday you
22 talked about that you -- some of your fear came from this
23 Great Chicken Mambo book that I gave to you yesterday. Given
24 the time constraints -- may I approach, your Honor, with the
26 THE COURT: Yes.
27 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that I am
28 handing a copy of the book that's been previously
163 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 authenticated, The Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman
2 Condition by Ed Regis.
3 Q. Can you tell me in that book -- and Counsel has a
4 copy, your Honor, for the record -- can you tell us in that
5 book or read a portion of that book that concerns you?
6 A. Yes, I can.
7 Q. And please tell us the pages you're reading from.
8 A. Well, on page 49 there was a section here that
9 concerned me. Should I read this?
10 Q. Well, you're going to have to tell us the paragraph
11 that you're on.
12 A. Okay. I'm on the top of page 49, second paragraph
13 going down.
14 Q. Okay. Starting with the word?
15 A. Starts with "After."
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. "After awhile Keith and Caroline had become
18 semi-professional explosives experts. Quote, 'We were
19 accomplished pyromaniacs,' Caroline said. 'We were mostly
20 always going out into the desert and setting things off,
21 mostly just bombs,' end of quote."
22 At that time the book indicates Keith was married to
24 Q. That's fine. What else?
25 A. There is another little section further down. "This
26 was supposed to be a mock atomic bomb, and indeed it worked
27 pretty well. 'It made an incredible fire ball and mushroom
28 cloud,' Caroline said. 'I mean, it was really impressive.'
164 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Caroline and Keith, though, had no trouble topping that one.
2 They came back the next week with a device that would not only
3 look like an a bomb explosion, it would actually work like
4 one. The real atomic bomb had an implosion lens detonator,
5 and so too would Caroline and Keith's. The core of the bomb
6 would be a mixture of ammonium nitrate and diesel oil. They
7 mixed this up easily in their garage, and the only problem
8 would be getting it to explode on command. 'Ammonium nitrate
9 is just hellishly difficult to set off unless you have tons of
10 it together,' Keith said. 'You have to confine it and give it
11 a pressure shock. It's a real pain to get it to blow up
12 properly.' But he knew how to do it, of course. So he took a
13 200-pound lard can and put three pieces of prim cord inside,
14 looping them around so that they completely covered the
15 bottom. Then he poured the ammonium nitrate into the can,
16 inserted sticks of dynamite all around the perimeter, ran the
17 prim cord fuse up to a blasting cap on top of it. The cap
18 would fire the prim cord, which in turn would set off the
19 dynamite, which would crush the mass of ammonium nitrate until
20 the necessary pressure was reached. A true implosion --I' I'm
21 sorry. "A true implosion device just like the atom bomb.
22 Caroline and Keith thought that their new bomb would be so
23 powerful that they took the precaution of putting it behind a
24 hillside so that it would be out of anyone's direct line of
25 sight. So they set it up, lit the fuse, ran like hell, and
26 jumped in the jeep. This is how he learned about the forces
27 of nature. A shock wave blast them forth like the world was
28 coming to an end right there in southern Arizona. It was a
165 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 misty, rainy day, and the ambient moisture condensed out in an
2 expanding shell as the compression traveled out from the
3 center. It was stunning. Everyone agreed that it was a very
4 loud explosion, one of the best recreational bombs ever seen."
5 Q. And is that it that concerned you?
6 A. There was one other that I was concerned about.
7 Q. Page, please?
8 A. This is on page 105.
9 Q. Starting with what paragraph, sir?
10 A. Well, there's two paragraphs. There's one down here
11 -- let's see, one, two, three -- fourth. It starts with the
12 word "It."
13 Q. Okay.
14 MR. HARR: I must have -- could I ask if he -- I'm
15 sorry. I don't mean to interrupt, Mr. Hoden, I just -- where
16 are we on this?
17 MR. SCHWARZ: Where are we, Mr. Hoden?
18 THE WITNESS: All right. I'm -- page 105, I'm
19 starting at the eighth line from the bottom with the word
21 MR. HARR: Okay. Thank you.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: You're welcome, Counsel.
23 THE WITNESS: All right. "It took them three hours
24 of dissection just to reach and identify all the major
25 instructions involved. This was Keith Henson's first
26 suspension. So he had the dirty scrub duties, mopping up ice
27 water, vacuuming up bone chips, dumping fluids down the drain,
28 real blood-up-to-the-elbow stuff, he said." And this is in
166 Amanda M. Fa Ian, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 connection to a line above it where it says with the word, "in
2 fact." "In fact, Keith was now so excited about cryonics --"
3 MR. HARR: Again, I'm sorry, I don't mean to
4 interrupt you, sir, but I'm not following that. I think we
5 got to here. We're taking this out of order, and I'm not
7 Here we go.
8 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Would you please -- mind reading
9 that again, please?
10 A. Sure. "In fact, Keith was by now so excited about
11 cryonics that he wanted to see a suspension firsthand. So
12 when he got the call from Arthur McCoombs at Alcore, he flew
13 down to Riverside in his full surgical dress by the time the
14 patient was wheeled into the operating room." And this is
15 regarding cutting up dead bodies and freezing them.
16 MR. HARR: We don't need the -- excuse me, your
17 Honor, that's editorial comment, I believe.
18 THE COURT: Sustained.
19 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Do you know what cryonics is?
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. What is the basic premise of cryonics, sir?
22 A. What they do is -
23 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, relevance.
24 THE COURT: Sustained.
25 MR. SCHWARZ: Goes to his -- exception, your Honor.
26 Q. As of the date the defendant first showed up to
27 picket at Golden Era in 2000, what did you know about him?
28 A. I knew that he hated the Church of Scientology,
167 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 wanted to destroy the Church of Scientology. He had stated so
2 numerous times in the past, so I knew that he had that state
3 of mind when he came there.
4 Q. Okay. And -- but what information did you have
5 about him?
6 A. I had various postings that he had posted on the
7 internet in the past. I had various other documents that were
8 sent to me. I had one -- I had this book, which even he -
9 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir. He's just asking what
11 THE WITNESS: I had this book, and I had other
12 documents, and I had postings that were put on the internet by
13 Keith Henson.
14 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. Now, where did you get the
15 information? Where did you get the book first of all?
16 A. This was sent to me by our church in Los Angeles.
17 Q. Okay. Now, let's talk about those postings. I
18 think now would be a good time.
19 MR. HARR: Your Honor, can I approach the bench on
20 this? I think this will just take a minute -
21 THE COURT: All right. You want the reporter?
22 MR. HARR: Please, your Honor.
23 (The following proceedings were held at sidebar.)
24 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I don't have any problem
25 obviously with him on the exhibits that we have authenticated.
26 And I know that's where he's going with this. But in light of
27 this late development, redaction issue, I don't want to get
28 too far before we get to resolve that issue. And it was my
168 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 understanding that he wasn't going to offer these until at
2 least noon or at least after the break so we can maybe further
3 discuss the issue.
4 THE COURT: He's not going to offer the items into
5 evidence, anyway. We can -- if -- if during the break the
6 Court determines that they are not receivable or that you
7 cannot -- that there is a bar against your using the others,
8 the Court will make its decision then.
9 MR. HARR: Okay. And I'll just -- I can use the
10 evidence, the exhibits that are already marked to at least
11 inquire, right? Because those have been authenticated. But
12 the full information, we may not have the issue if I can do
14 MR. SCHWARZ: Well, can we talk about this at the
15 break? Because I have information that says otherwise.
16 THE COURT: Well, let's just leave it status quo at
17 this point. We'll take it up at the break.
18 MR. HARR: Thank you.
19 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.
20 (The following proceedings were held in open court
21 in the presence of the jury.)
22 MR. SCHWARZ: I don't know if this is going to show
24 THE COURT: Counsel, are you -
25 MR. SCHWARZ: I was going to show him this -
26 MR. HARR: That will be publishing it.
27 THE COURT: Show it to him, not to anybody else,
169 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. My apologies to the Court. May
2 I approach?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Mr. Hoden, I'm handing you what's
5 been previously marked as People's Exhibit Number 24A, which
6 is a -- which has been previously authenticated as a true and
7 correct copy of Mr. Henson's posting on the -
8 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, the attorney is
10 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm stating it for the record, your
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): -- which has been previously
14 authenticated by the Court -
15 THE COURT: Wait a minute, Counsel.
16 All right. Go ahead.
17 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
18 Q. Can you please -- do you recognize it?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. And how do you recognize it?
21 A. Well, this is a document that I saw, you know,
22 previous to Mr. Henson coming out here.
23 Q. Okay. And where did you get that document from, or
24 a copy of?
25 A. This was sent to me from our church in Los Angeles.
26 Q. And can you please -- now, did that document give
27 you concern?
28 A. Yes, it did.
170 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. And can you read the part that gave you concern?
2 A. Okay. Keith Henson writes here, he says, "The
3 annihilation of the Church of Scientology and all its fronts
4 is a worthy goal." I thought -- that was alarming to me,
5 somebody would want to annihilate my church.
6 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, just tell us which part
7 alarmed you.
8 THE WITNESS: That part alarmed me.
9 THE COURT: All right.
10 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. Thank you.
11 Do you have Number 15, Madam Clerk? 15A? May I
12 approach, your Honor?
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 MR. SCHWARZ: Should I continue to ask permission?
15 Thank you.
16 Q. I'm handing you what's been previously marked as
17 People's 15A for identification, which has also been
18 previously authenticated by the Court as a true and correct
19 copy of what was posted to the internet by Mr. Henson.
20 THE COURT: No, sir, that is incorrect. That has
21 not been authenticated as a true and correct copy. Counsel
23 MR. SCHWARZ: May the People approach?
24 THE COURT: That is a portion -
25 MR. SCHWARZ: A portion. A relevant portion. The
26 relevant portion -
27 THE COURT: No, sir. That is a portion.
28 MR. SCHWARZ: A portion.
171 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE COURT: Please reframe your question.
2 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.
3 Q. Can you please -- do you recognize it?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. What is it?
6 A. This is a document that was written by Keith Henson
7 on the 16th of June, 2000.
8 Q. When did you first see it?
9 A. I saw this a few days after it was written.
10 Q. How did you come to see it?
11 A. It was sent to me by our church in Los Angeles.
12 Q. Would you please read to the jury the -- that
13 portion of that document that caused you to be concerned?
14 A. Yes. "If you do want to help picket, it is an
15 impressive sight to see them getting under cover like roaches
16 when the kitchen light is turned on."
17 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. May I approach?
18 THE COURT: Yes.
19 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Let the record reflect that I am
20 handing the witness what's been previously marked as People's
21 Exhibit 8A for identification. It is a true and correct copy
22 of a portion that has been previously authenticated as true
23 and correct copy of Mr. Henson's posting on the internet.
24 Do you recognize it, Mr. Hoden?
25 A. Yes, I do.
26 Q. How do you recognize it?
27 A. Well, because I remember having read it.
28 Q. Okay. What is it?
172 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. This is a document that was written by Keith Henson
2 on the 23rd of June, 2000.
3 Q. And when did you first see it?
4 A. Would have been within -- probably the 24th.
5 Usually I would receive these the day after he would post them
6 on the internet.
7 Q. How did you come to see it?
8 A. Well, it was sent to me from the church in Los
9 Angeles that monitored this internet site.
10 Q. Would you please read to the jury that portion of
11 the document that caused you to be concerned?
12 A. I will. "They are now using the west underpass
13 slightly, possibly when I am on the east underpass. The
14 disruption in traffic from one side of the highway to the
15 other must be killing their stats."
16 Q. Is that it?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I apologize for this. I
20 thought there might -- this might be misread. I'm not sure
21 what he said at the beginning of the second sentence that he
22 just read, the word starting with "the," I'm not sure what he
24 THE COURT: All right. Would you repeat it for the
25 -- Madam Reporter, would you reread it?
2 6 (Record read.)
27 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.
28 THE COURT: All right.
173 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: Are you satisfied?
2 MR. HARR: Yes, I am, thank you.
3 MR. SCHWARZ: May I approach, your Honor?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that I am
6 handing the defendant -- or the witness, rather, what's been
7 previously been marked as People's Exhibit Number 20A, which
8 is a true and correct copy of a portion of a document that
9 Mr. Henson has authored.
10 THE COURT: The document was previously
12 MR. SCHWARZ: That's correct, your Honor.
13 Q. Do you recognize it, sir?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. What is it?
16 A. This is a document that was written on the 3rd of
17 July, 2000, and it's signed, "Keith Henson from the Hemet
19 Q. And would you please read that portion of the
20 document that caused you to be concerned?
21 A. Yes. "I stopped on my way out to collect more
22 addresses near one of the two clam bed apartments." He refers'
23 to Scientologists as clams.
24 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, he's not reading
26 THE COURT: Sustained.
27 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Just read the document.
28 A. "I stopped on my way out to collect more addresses
174 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 near one of the two clam bed apartments. There will be
2 another post on what to do with the addresses. Either they
3 leave those buses there one heck of a long time, or they are
4 under orders not to load as long as I am there. Am I that
5 dangerous even without a picket sign?" That's what he says.
6 Q. Now, while you were reading you indicated what "clam
7 bed --" how do you take that? What does "clam bed" mean?
8 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation.
9 THE COURT: Sustained.
10 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Do you know what "clam bed"
12 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation.
13 THE COURT: Sustained.
14 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Have you ever heard of the term
15 "clam bed"?
16 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, relevance.
17 THE COURT: Overruled.
18 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Have you ever heard of the term?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And how is it used?
21 A. It's a derogatory -
22 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, relevance.
23 MR. SCHWARZ: It's explaining the document.
24 THE COURT: Overruled.
25 MR. HARR: No foundation.
26 THE COURT: Overruled.
27 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
28 THE COURT: I take it you are laying the foundation?
175 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm laying it right now, your Honor.
2 Q. So have you ever heard of the term "clam"?
3 A. Yes, I have.
4 Q. And what is the term referred to?
5 A. It's a derogatory term referring to Scientologists.
6 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation.
7 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): How do you know that -
8 MR. HARR: Request that that be stricken.
9 THE COURT: Overruled.
10 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): How do you know that?
11 A. I've heard people jeer it out and say it out to
12 Scientologists before. It's a derogatory term.
13 Q. Okay. So from that reading of that posting when it
14 refers to "clam bed," how did you take it?
15 A. Well, one -- several things. One, he's gloating
16 about the fact that -
17 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, relevancy about
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): I'm asking you, Mr. Hoden, please
21 listen to the question, how did you take the term "clam bed"?
22 What did that mean to you?
23 A. It was an insulting term. I felt insulted. I'm
25 Q. The term "clam bed" itself as opposed to "clam"?
26 MR. HARR: Asked and answered.
27 THE COURT: He's answered the question.
28 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. Thank you.
176 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 May I approach, your Honor?
2 THE COURT: Yes.
3 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that I have
4 handed the witness a copy of -- or what's been previously
5 marked as People's Exhibit Number 9A for identification, which
6 is a -- which has been previously been authenticated as a
7 portion of a document that is -- that Mr. Henson had authored
8 on a posting.
9 THE COURT: I'm sorry? That Mr. Henson what?
10 MR. SCHWARZ: Mr. Henson wrote.
11 THE COURT: It's been authenticated. The document
13 MR. SCHWARZ: Is authenticated.
14 THE COURT: This is a -
15 MR. SCHWARZ: A copy.
16 THE COURT: -- a portion of a document -
17 MR. SCHWARZ: I said "portion," your Honor.
18 THE COURT: -- that has been previously
19 authenticated by the Court.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: By the Court.
21 THE COURT: Right.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
24 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Do you recognize that document?
25 A. Yes, I do.
26 Q. What is it?
27 A. This is a document that was written by Keith Henson
177 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, the witness has no
2 independent knowledge of that. It's already been discussed.
3 THE COURT: Sustained. I'm sorry. Overruled.
4 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): What is it?
5 A. This is a document that was written by Keith Henson
6 on the 4th of July, 2000.
7 Q. When did you first see it?
8 A. I saw this on about the 5th of July, next day.
9 Q. How did you come to see it?
10 A. It was sent to me by our church in Los Angeles.
11 Q. Would you please read to the jury that portion of
12 the document that caused you to be concerned?
13 A. "This morning I got out there before 7:00 a.m. I
14 was not early enough to follow the buses back to the two clam
15 apartments. But all four went by my picket signs within a
16 ten-minute period close to 7:00 a.m. The buses made another
17 run after this. I followed one of them over to the apartments
18 on Kirby and found one at the Fruitvale apartment as well.
19 The first one tried to shake me off, hard to do in a bus, and
20 stopped for a while at a gas station to call. They sure are
22 Q. Thank you.
23 Madam clerk, can I have what's been previously
24 marked as People's Exhibit Number 6? Thank you.
25 THE CLERK: Counsel, I'm sorry to interrupt. Can I
26 just ask, 6 and 13 were to be admitted as redacted versions?
27 THE COURT: No, they're marked.
28 MR. SCHWARZ: This is one of the redacted versions.
178 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 And I am going to have Counsel only read that portion which
2 has not been redacted by the Court.
3 THE COURT: You mean the witness?
4 MR. SCHWARZ: The witness, your Honor, I apologize.
5 THE CLERK: Okay. Sorry to interrupt.
6 MR. SCHWARZ: May I approach, your Honor?
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that I am
9 handing Mr. Hoden a copy -- what's been previously been marked'
10 for identification as People's Number 6, which is -- has been
11 previously authenticated by the Court as a true and correct
12 copy of what was posted to the net by Mr. Henson.
13 Q. Now, Mr. Hoden?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. The Court has already redacted a portion of this.
16 So I would ask that you only read this line.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. Okay? Do you recognize that document?
19 A. Yes. This is a document that's signed by Keith
20 Henson and is dated on the 7th of July, 2000.
21 Q. And what is it?
22 A. Well, it's a document -
23 Q. Okay. Thank you. When did you first see that
25 A. I would have seen this on the 8th of July.
26 Q. And how did you come to see it?
27 A. Sent to me from the church in Los Angeles.
28 Q. Now, would you please read the one line that I
179 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 pointed to you?
2 A. Okay. "And a good topo map. The approach is clear
3 from the south."
4 Q. Did that give you cause for concern?
5 A. Yes, it did.
6 Q. Why?
7 A. I was afraid that they were talking about sending
8 missiles to attack the church, and he was referring to a route
9 where a missile could come and hit either our chapel or one of
10 the other buildings from the south, because there's no
11 mountains to the south, where a topography map would measure
12 where the mountains are or are not.
13 Q. So "topo map" means to you topography map?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 Mr. Clerk, may I have Exhibit Number 2?
17 May I approach, your Honor?
18 THE COURT: Yes.
19 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Mr. Hoden, I'm now handing you
20 what's previously been marked as People's Exhibit Number 2,
21 which has been previously authenticated by the Court as a true
22 and correct copy of what Mr. Henson posted to the net; do you
23 recognize it?
24 A. Yes, I do.
25 Q. What is it?
26 A. It is a document that was signed by Keith Henson
27 dated on the 9th of July, 2000.
28 Q. And when did you first see it?
180 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. I saw this on the 10th of July, 2000.
2 Q. How did you come to see it?
3 A. It was sent to me from the church in Los Angeles.
4 Q. Now, would you please read the document to the Court
5 and for the jury?
6 A. Do I read the part that's yellowed, or what parts do
7 you want me to read?
8 Q. Well, just go ahead and read it in context. Read
9 the entire document since the entire document has been -
10 MR. HARR: Your Honor, that's been represented as
11 having been posted by Mr. Henson, and there are those things
12 on the left edge that we have discussed previously.
13 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes.
14 Q. For the record, please, when you're reading -
15 A. Indicate which is which?
16 Q. Which is which. Which is not by Mr. Henson, and
17 then the portion -- when you get to the portion that was
18 written by Mr. Henson, would you please state that for the
20 A. Okay, good. All right. So the first portion reads
21 as follows: "I've already got the permit and a Harpy eagle,
22 bag limit two Scieos --" Scieos, I'm not sure how they
23 pronounce it, "two Scieos," I think it's an abbreviation for
24 Scientology -
25 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor.
26 MR. SCHWARZ: Just read it, please.
27 THE WITNESS: "I've already got the permit and a
28 Harpy eagle, bag limit two Scieos per day. If D.M. goes
181 Amanda M. Faaan. C.S.R. #8764. RPR
1 jogging in his pink bunny suit, I'll give him a two-minute
2 head start before I slip the eagle. Wouldn't do him any good,
3 an 18-pound eagle traveling at 40 miles per hour will strike
4 -- traveling at 40 miles per hour will strike with great
5 force, and their talons are bigger than a Kodiak bear."
6 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Now, please read the portion that
7 Mr. Henson wrote.
8 A. "Oh, great. Now --" a symbol "-- has to watch for
9 eagles as well as cruise missiles."
10 Q. Okay. Can you please describe the symbol?
11 A. It's got two -- two parenthesis with a star or an
12 asterisk in the middle.
13 Q. Okay. Have you ever seen this symbol before?
14 A. Yes, I have.
15 Q. And do you know what it represents?
16 A. Yes, I do.
17 Q. What does it represent?
18 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Have you ever seen -- okay.
21 You've testified that you've seen the mark before?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. Have you seen it in other documents?
24 A. Yes, I have.
25 Q. And over the course of however you've done it, what
26 do you -- what does that symbol mean to you?
27 A. Refers to the leader of the church.
28 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation.
182 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE COURT: Sustained.
2 MR. SCHWARZ: I'll rephrase.
3 Q. You've indicated that you've seen the -- you've seen
4 the markings before; where else have you seen that marking?
5 A. On other postings on the internet by Keith Henson.
6 Q. Okay. Have they ever been defined?
7 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, that's
8 conclusionary. There's been no authentication.
9 THE COURT: Sustained.
10 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Aside from Mr. Henson what have
11 you seen about that -- that symbol?
12 A. I've seen that symbol used by other people to refer
13 to the spiritual leader of the church. In other words, it's a
14 symbol that they -- the people who attack the religion or hate
15 the religion use to refer to the -
16 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, conclusionary on
17 the last part.
18 THE COURT: Sustained as to the last part.
19 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay.
20 Q. So you're saying that they have used that with
21 respect to -- they've used the symbol -
22 THE COURT: Sorry, Counsel, the symbol has been
24 MR. SCHWARZ: Correct.
25 Q. The symbol has been used to refer to the
26 ecclesiastical leader of the church?
27 A. That is correct.
28 Q. And his name is?
183 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. Mr. David Miscavige.
2 Q. So when you read that document, when you read what
3 Mr. Henson writes, how do you take it?
4 A. Well, he's trying to kill the head of the church and
5 knock off the head of the church. In other words, it's -- I
6 don't know. It would be like -
7 MR. HARR: Asked and answered, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Sustained.
9 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. You've answered the
10 question. I appreciate that.
11 One moment, your Honor.
12 Can I have Number 17, please?
13 May I approach, your Honor?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm handing what's been previously
16 been marked as People's Exhibit Number 17 for identification,
17 which has been previously been authenticated by the Court as a
18 true and correct copy of what Mr. Henson posted to the net.
19 THE COURT: The entire?
20 MR. SCHWARZ: It's the entire document, your Honor.
21 Q. Now, there are portions of the -- of that document
22 that are not entirely Mr. Henson's?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. So please read the document -- first of all, do you
25 recognize it?
26 A. Yes, I do.
27 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I don't -- sorry to interrupt
28 Counsel, but I believe with the squiggly deals on the
184 Aman(ia M_ Faaan. C.S.R. #8764. RPR
1 left-hand margin, again I would indicate Mr. Henson did not
2 post -
3 MR. SCHWARZ: I'll instruct the witness.
4 THE COURT: Disregard the squiggly deals.
5 MR. SCHWARZ: Well, your Honor, I think what Counsel
6 meant to say was he just wants me to inform the Court that
7 part of it's not his.
8 Q. So first of all, do you recognize it?
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. What is it?
11 A. It is a document that's signed by Keith Henson, and
12 it's dated on the 11th of July, 2000.
13 Q. When did you first see it?
14 A. I saw this on the 12th of July.
15 Q. And how did you come to see it?
16 A. Sent to me from the church in Los Angeles.
17 Q. Okay. Now, would you please read the document and
18 indicate what is not Mr. Henson's by the -- by the greater
19 than signs, and then when you get to the portion of the
20 document that was written by Mr. Henson, would you indicate it
21 for the jury.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. Is that fair?
24 A. Sure.
25 Q. Okay. Please do it.
26 A. "The range of a pluton M.R.B.M. equal (deleted for
27 purpose of national security.) C.E.P. on the platform equal
28 (deleted for purpose of national security,) although I imagine
185 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 probably around 750 yards." And then Mr. Henson says, "No
2 way. Modern weapons are accurate to a matter of a few tens of
3 yards. The terminal guidance ones are good to single digits,"
4 signed, "Keith Henson."
5 Q. Thank you. Have you ever heard the acronym
7 A. Refers to some sort of missile. I don't know what
8 the letters stand for -
9 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, nonresponsive.
10 THE COURT: Sustained.
11 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Have you ever heard of it?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. And to your understanding what does it refer
15 A. It's a missile.
16 Q. Okay. Thank you.
17 May I approach, your Honor?
18 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel.This might be an
19 appropriate time for us to take our morning recess. The Court
20 and Counsel have some things to take up, and we're going to
21 give you a little extra time this morning. Let's get back
22 here at about 10:20, please. Don't discuss the case. Leave
23 your books right where they are. We'll see you in about 22
24 minutes. Thank you. And Mr. Hoden, you are excused for the
25 time being.
26 THE WITNESS: Okay.
27 THE COURT: You folks are free to leave if you wish.
28 (The jury exited the courtroom.)
186 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE COURT: Mr. Schwarz, the Court is concerned with
2 the fact that the People have redacted portions of the
3 previously authenticated documents to where they only state
4 what apparently what the People want to present to the
5 witness. The jury has been led to believe, the Court
6 believes, that those are the only portions of the document the
7 Court will permit absent some authority -- excuse me, Counsel.
8 MR. SCHWARZ: I haven't said anything.
9 THE COURT: -- will permit the defense to
10 cross-examine this witness with the unredacted copies.
11 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, as we spoke in chambers,
12 if the Court will allow me just a minute, I don't know where
13 my -- I can't find my authority which I brought to court for
14 whatever reason, because I showed it to Mr. Harr, that
15 Mr. Harr doesn't have -
16 THE COURT: He can cross-examine with the Los
17 Angeles Times, Counsel.
18 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.
19 THE COURT: And he can indicate that the previous
20 documents have been authenticated in their entirety.
21 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor -
22 THE COURT: And cross-examine the witness subject to
23 objection from Counsel as to any aspect of those redacted
25 MR. SCHWARZ: I -- the People respectfully disagree
26 with the Court to one portion that needs to be addressed by
27 the Court, even though the Court understands my disagreement.
28 There are portions in those documents, your Honor, where the
187 Amanda MFarran_ C_R_R_ #8764. RPR
1 Court has already ruled in limine with respect to the deaths,
2 also with respect to fair game. And so your Honor, if Mr. -
3 MR. HARR: I already represented I won't go there.
4 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. And if the Court will allow me
5 to get my authority, I will give it to you before the Court's
6 -- before the jury returns.
7 THE COURT: Well, it would be pretty difficult for
8 me to prohibit you from doing that, wouldn't it?
9 MR. SCHWARZ: It would be.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm just asking for the Court to
12 address that before the jury returns so -
13 THE COURT: Then you'd better get here about -- soon
14 enough so that we can address it before the jury comes back at
16 MR. HARR: Your Honor, if I might just -- I believe
17 I probably am saying something maybe that doesn't need to be
18 done. But my previous -- my memory's failed me. Evidence
19 Code 356, when part of an act, declaration, conversation or
20 writing is given in evidence by one party, the whole on the
21 same subject may be inquired into by an adverse party?
22 THE COURT: That's what I said, Counsel.
23 MR. SCHWARZ: And I will bring the -
24 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Court's in recess.
25 MR. SCHWARZ: Until what time?
26 THE COURT: 10:20. Well, if you want to show me
27 something you better get back before that. You better get
28 back at 10:15.
188 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR