This exhibit is really hard to understand even with my background. I found out through devious channels that it was related only to what the scns felt Bob Minton had forced them to spend, some $34,950,000.
As a best guess this is 30% of what they have spend against critics since 1995, so we are dealing with an overall number in the $100 million range and that may be low.
I am going to supply this exhibit in my brief to Judge Whyte (I have certified copies of this and 185 which I can send to people if you need one.)
But what I need is extensive discussion to go with it describing the people and the cases with pointers to the material on the web or elsewhere. If anyone wants to comment on this thing, I will work your comments into a document explaining Exhibit 191 and 185. 186 is in Rosen's hand writing and won't OCR fer beans. I will run a scan of it and post to a.b.s and will send to anyone who wants a copy.
PS. Though I doubt Bob and his lawyers considered it so at the time, a darn good case can be made for the meeting to be described as promoting the obstruction of justice.
NOTES FOR MEETING IN SANDY ROSENíS OFFICE
Attendies. Sandy Rosen, Mike Rosen, Monique Yingling, Steven Jones, Bob Minton, and Stacey Brooks
March 28, 2002
Mike Rinder: Introduction
Mike Rinder said he would make a list. re issues.
We are happy to hear their list first
Bob Minton: Wants us to go first
Mike Rinder: Most constructive way starts with broad strokes - both sides agree need the disengagement - no Christmas cards, never hear name again
If this is what we are trying to accomplish (not like FACTNet) -- complete disengagement -- we can do it.
Mike Rinder List
1. O/S litigation has to go Florida, France, Germany
Within Florida - all have to go Civil case Breach cases / TX and FL Probate
2. Declarations and Affidavits - Jesse, Stacy, Vaughn - in order to not have them used in future. Mike Binder - question of how to do it more than principal
3/. LMT - website, domain names, etc. Whatever is left of LMT
4. Movie - Mike Rinder doesn't know status or what his rights are
Mike Rinder - easy on how to resolve issues - he is just trying to identity issues
Parameters of settlement Mutual releases No funding No stirring up press, etc.
Terms of settlement Confidential
Mike Rinder - thinks BM probably cares more a -- BM may suffer criticism from those he has been involved with kind regards,
Mike Ringer - believes BM is sincere about wanting to accomplish this but doesn't have a specific way to go about it. Sandy has list of specifics about litigation.
SJ - best to hear specifics of litigation them they should caucus
Sandy Rosin , - This is list of what BM has caused either by funding or providing W's etc.
Florida Wrongful death a) 14.5 b) 4.5
Motion being prepared to bring Minion in to case - J Schaeffer comment -- provides of copy of motion
Breach case in Fl- - breach at BM's behest - Minton - party to case
a) $1,025,000 b) $1,000,000
J has entered Steven Jones on K claim -- still has tort claims against Dell, BM & LMT
Over TRO case - $700,000 Over Courage/Movie $20,000
O/ sanctions against M. Jacobson and LM or Stagy
SR - gives s background Minton provides $ to LW and L.eipold and affidavits His support caused the alter- ego motion to go forward a) $2,500,000 b) $3,000, 000
Sandy Rosen - w/o affidavit supplied by Mr. Minton's camp - motion would be dismissed on its face ) ~ $8.5M with interest
Minton funded case in NEV. and supported Armstrong - case dismissed
2nd case in Nev. re defamation - over 3rd case Armstrong - contempt - Marin County - 131 violations at $50,000.00
Mr. Minton to be added to suit in Marin County for inducing breach
a) $260,000 b) $500,000
Henson - 2nd fugitive
BM not responsible for Henson but BM paid his attorneys. Berry and DC -- from that time,
a) $1,065,000 b) $350,000
Posting re BM to send to KH in exile - Joke? Stacey says no moneys was sent
Case before Minton but attorneys now being funded by BM: FG & DL
Case Settled but keeps going on:
b) 75,000 - discovery/now have contempt and sanctions (May 31, 2002 - trial) because of Minton funding
France - $80,000 - These casts appear dead. SB - dead still or alive? Germany - $25,000 - still outstanding
Not asking for any "relief" here because case settled Mr. Minton funded attorneys when insurance ran out GM gave money to LW and has lien filed in LW case $750,000? BM says something like that
Lopez No attorney would take on contingency basis - so bad Lipoid took case - funded by Minton
Texas Breach Case
SJ questions - why 2 cases? Why one in Florida and Texas? SR says - work product.
Minton funding attorneys - Leibrick is defendant but has never paid Dandar
J. of $308,000 - damages fees- $555,000 - fees to get DM out of case - fee provision in contract
SR - explains how could be liable for breach although allowed to amend
a) $555,000 u) 150,000 - Dandar motion for JNOV on 21 separate grounds
Leibrick says - Minton & Dandar reed to take care of this
a) $30,000 b) 50,000
SR reaps awards notice re $360,000
Interest and TM disputes Use- of LM name raised by LMT Internet domain names
a) $ 32,000 $150,000
BM no copyright infringement in TM
SR - now preparing RICO case which will encompass all damages above
a) $40,000 - research, etc.
Will be filed when wrongful death case won
Nonlitigation cases - demonstrations etc.
Security in Florida - $2,900,000 Security in other places Toronto, Los Angeles, DC, and San Francisco - $470,V00
Maria Pia Ghardini
BM asks for total?
SR - purpose - magnitude of what BM involved in
SJ - 2 purposes - magnitude re RICO case and out of packet costs - we get that
SR - another reason -- will be in Mr. Minton's debt if he can make things can away - future expenditures not necessary - Oldster - 4.5 e.g. in wrongful death
SJ - outstanding litigation would have to go? Do we mean BM would have to bring about dismissal of McPherson case.? MR - yes that is what we want
MR - have to get rid of case or can't separate ourselves because BM is in case because of funding
2 April - SB bank records 5 April Criminal contempt -- 3. Schaeffer 8-9 April,- deposition and sentencing on criminal contempt if doesn't produce
SJ what is our position on LW - Does BM have to get rid of that too?
SR - recaps BM involvement - if he caused it, he can make it go away
BM has lien - can collect he has influence SBA -- You don't know LW
BM re funding of Leipold - never related to Lopez -- Harvey funded - DC had problems with firm
BM - has given him substantial amounts of money - may have used it to pay expenses while LW and Lopez going on.
ONE HOUR BREAK
SJ 1) Be responsive as possible to what we laid out
2) Lay out something they want to add to the mix that BM and SB find important
Fair reading that want _______resolution of issues but________in details
Some gap re what BM can control - what can be brought along BM - SB - JB - in some circumstances GW
SB tries to explain that they canít guarantee until will abide by agreement
No Money or other support, withdrawal of JP and SB affidavits, commit to be Ws, effort to try to exert influence over- Dandar and Leibrick to resolve matter.
SJ say can't commit to making case go away
SR - hope this is not harbinger of things to come because extremely disappointed - SB & JP already arc not W's - Dandar has told Ct would not be Wís
MR & MY- let's just hear what they have to say - more _ _ way
SB& BM & JP -- willing to stop all activities in_____Church of Scientology Exception hava to think through - website Transfer domain names
Affidavits - commit to no further affidavits in______ litigation - no willingness to say earlier affidavit improper or erroneous but she may sign letter- saying does not support use of her affidavit.
No willingness to correct outstanding affidavits
LW - need to skip over this issue for the moment
Haven't decided what could be done or what commitment
BM has money in LW case and looking to get ii back - doesn't know how -- could be assignment to us of lien and then we pay $750,000 to him in "some form"
SR -- asks to clarify
BM - just to back up - not sure, what affidavits are in LW - Stacey's, JP ard VY
Is friend of BM and he feels it is necessary to assist him in ways that have nothing to do with Church
Struggle with way to do this
Could have and then get: agreement from GW that he would not be in Scientology business arid would not use BM money against church
SR - dismiss what? Our claims SR - yes
Movie - do not know status but agree to step back________no money
BM - 50% PA; 50% - BM
Alexander retains copyright
SJ_____suits - not sure what could be done
Stacey adds IRS domain
Agreement Mutual Releases No funding No pickets Confidentiality Recognition of no impropriety
SR - haven't addressed certain of litigation
SJ -- doesn't know whit can be done in some - need specific
SR - breach case - pay us
SJ - what they need
Withdrawal of all claims, investigations etc, re BMís activities in Nigeria Cause the withdrawal of Claims brought by Nigerian government
Stacey away provision - Church affiliates, PIs (don't need to get into what they think is going on), etc, SB, 8M, JP, GW - accountants, doctors, lawyers
No Surveillance or______gathering
All litigation and claims - go away - discovery, contempt, etc.
We too have compensation elements. If we want disengagement.
BM compensated for his payments in McPherson case - payments to Dandar. -- yes. Properties to purchase in CW LMT building - $300,000 JP - bonuses, etc.
1:45 - AFTER LUNCH
MR - listened, glad some agreed on some things.
Refers to telephone call re listened in 1998 -- We arc not in same, place as l998.
MR did not: take their position as thinking we would pay them money - stop now.
We are not, in position of just expending money but also to point of recovering
Re - wrongful death case -... we will not pay YOU - but I understood it as offset.
MR - until wrongful death case goes away - we ; an not have disengagement.
MR knows BM can do it - can discuss later how BM - dreaming if thinks we will day money.
MR - can't control Nigerian government - wont BS him - can control flow of information
No problem with complete disentanglement re Investigation, etc., if out of our hair.
MR - maybe you are spot aware of where this litigation standards.
BM says he is not.
MR - "you are deep pocket" - everyone else is beneficiary of your money
We want to collect from you because you are inextricably linked to the cases.
CT & DL saying Minton has to pay.
MR - not trying to posture or _________- just want to lay it out as I see it.
MR - believes can go away - believes BM wants it to and MR wants it to.
MR wants to advance Church of Scientology - not litigate - not investigate BM, etc.
MR believes that BM does not want hassles in life anymore, also think BM has been screwed by people who have taken his money and not done things in his best interest.
MR - we are not going to pay you money - money will flow the other way.
BM - if we settle cases money will go back to him LW DL - not saying having to write iiim a dock
MR - we have a different perspective -- DL. and Dandar are not to get anything out of this case -- and so I am saying you will not get your money back.
SR - says Dandar is out there trying to protect his own behind.
SR - doesnít think BM has a clue of what is going on even in Florida, (Maybe bad lawyers). SR recaps sanctions and fines pending.
Dandar out there - trying to stop discovery because lie knows what will happen.
SR believes BM can he very persuasive with Dandar.
SR - you know beaker - what is going on in this case
re Ws -- JP on retainer
SB - just wants to correct record re her status
SR - Clarifies position re Ward and we have J against him
SJ says knows we- have J but nor worth anything
SR Says our position is taut BM is liable for Ward's breach.
SJ asks MR is anything more.
MR wants to be sure that they are not expecting money - that would be a waste of time.
Re 1998 comment - not trying to be a wish guy - just thinks BM doesnít have a complete picture.
MR - we are now in position to recover some of money expended
SR, BM will not recover anything from estate - we will get our money first in breach cases.
BM will not get anything until other money is made.
SJ - appreciates details but not advancing ball _. he hears what is being said re our litigation options, etc. - we will have disagreement on what will touch Bob,
SJ - do we have expectation that Florida case will go away - with no money? Yes -- no money from us,
SJ - no resolution Unless can have Case, go away with no money Prone us.
MR - Yes.
BM - or we pay to have them go sway.
SJ - just want to know parameters
They Understand case has to go away - but want to be clear that we won't pay money to have case go away.
SB - Are we saying case dismissed or saying re: solved without paying money.
MR - latter - but same
SB - Issues in case people fool strongly about that aren't money.
She is trying to gauge what she can do.
SB explains re offset? Money against estate? (tries to -- get to)
SJ? What was last settlement offer made. Sandy says none since criminal proceedings dropped
MR - can't discuss confidential mediation.
SJ -- they have _____ sources of information.
SJ - We've caucused and here is where we are
We wave greater expectations about resolving things there are warranted.
Let's break now and make some phony calls and get some sense of reality it can resolve case without money coming from the Church
Will get back re MR - quest on money too?
March 29, 2002
SJ - Have thought about what via discussed yesterday that and I think best thing is to the proceed - small toys
Understand Florida case: is essential and need to make efforts there
Won't happen overnight - some steps taken already
Meeting scheduled for Wednesday with Dandar
To bring Dell into discussions need to agree not to depose her during discussions or not to depose her at all about discussions with BM and SB
They are willing to take steps and arcs extraordinary but re do that we have to dismiss.
1) contempt matters against BM 2) to postpone
Stacey's deposition re bank records They me willing to take this extraordinary step but we must give something in return.
BM - 90 questions in order to make case go sway.
SR - asks to clarify - 90 questions
SJ - says questions -- harassment all information already given
SR - wrong if think that deposition is just to find out BM involvement in breach. Deposition is into all financial information
SR -- we are encouraged, positive sups hope to keep momentum going.
They need to know settlement will not be on best efforts specific issues
Dell deposition - earliest scheduled would be April 12 - if we are going to have settlement, will have to before then - we will ask questions about any discussions about BM & SB
BM - can we get something in writing on dell and discussions.
SR - will send letter to Steve confirming - whoever deposes her will send letter
SR - re contempt etc. - recounts what happened yesterday in Florida
Dandar asked J. Schaeffer to continue contempt until after deposition - J rejected this request
SR - we need to have settlement by 5 April to have it go away
SJ says we could tell J that questions have been answered.
SR says that is a lie with respect to bank records deposition - produce for attorney eyes only, etc.
With respect to _________breach - we will not put off until we have a settlement.
We should have a settlement before April 8 - no middle ground necessary,
SR - Let us continue on to try to settle all issues - because we will gamble that you will have success
SB - you are not willing to put oft deposition - what do we have to talk abort.
SJ - we are tasking them to take extraordinary sups - arid we should give something,
BM disagrees with what happened before re teleconference with Howie.
[page 14 - end]